There kidding...right

[steptoe]

It takes a few months for the results to be posted out and it's just a pass or fail. Not sure how your teacher got yours in a few days? Did mine a few years ago now, just memorise guidance note 3 job done.

I think it was '02 when I did mine,

(I was coming back to the UK and knew I needed something more up to date than 15th)

it was over on the Isle of Man and a tutor came over from England, 3 day course and the practical on the 4th day with the theory one evening the following week.

phone call a couple of weeks later to inform us of the results and then a cert in the post a few weeks after that.

maybe cos it was a paper exam, I dont honestly know.

my original point was that anyone doing this job, esp those self employed with scheme memberships should be able to pass this,

it is the basics of our job to know the reasons for certain results and test procedures,

not simply because this is how Ive always done it.

 

[Voltimax]

Well I'll put in my four penneth worth to this little debate.

These exams still have people passing who struggle to do the job. I can think of more than one person I've come into contact with, that have very little experience in this trade and no qualifications. They enrolled themselves into 2381/2 and passed then went on to enroll to a 2391 and in turn passed. These people contact me on a regular basis asking me basic questions. Before they entered the 2391 exam, they had no underpinning knowledge what so ever, so how do these people get through? Photographic memory?

 

[steptoe]

Well I'll put in my four penneth worth to this little debate.These exams still have people passing who struggle to do the job. I can think of more than one person I've come into contact with, that have very little experience in this trade and no qualifications. They enrolled themselves into 2381/2 and passed then went on to enroll to a 2391 and in turn passed. These people contact me on a regular basis asking me basic questions. Before they entered the 2391 exam, they had no underpinning knowledge what so ever, so how do these people get through? Photographic memory?

I suppose some people are just good at exams.

very valid point.

me,?

I hate all this paperwork stuff, but its a necessary evil nowadays.

 

[davetheglitz]

2391 is - rightly or wrongly - an academic exam - and as such can be passed without much practical experience.

If you do past papers, revise thoroughly, have a good exam technique and put the work in then you will pass.

I strongly suspect that most fail because they don't put the work in.

 

[bengie]

if a spark is worried about 2391(esp those with schemes to their names) then perhaps he/she should be doing something else.

so if someone doesn't know the regs inside and out or has the experience with testing to be able to predict all the test results accurately or know exactly why those results came to be then they should walk away and find something else to do?

well i wish i and everyone else in the trade was as good as you obviously are!

 

[steptoe]

2391 is - rightly or wrongly - an academic exam - and as such can be passed without much practical experience. If you do past papers, revise thoroughly, have a good exam technique and put the work in then you will pass.

I strongly suspect that most fail because they don't put the work in.

I had a 3hour practical when I done mine, then a separate exam on an evening.

so if someone doesn't know the regs inside and out or has the experience with testing to be able to predict all the test results accurately or know exactly why those results came to be then they should walk away and find something else to do?well i wish i and everyone else in the trade was as good as you obviously are!

its not about knowing the regs,

its about interpeting test results,

and if you cant do that then you maybe should be doing something else.

its not just about getting a result that meets 7671, its about knowing why such a test result means what it does, and what to do if it differs from what should be expected.

 

[Bacon]

Some people who take it may in my opinion be great at doing exams and practically not good, And others are good practically but not good at exams.

Which is the later in my case having failed it twice I wouldn't say I can't do the job personally.

And also in the last 6 questions of the exam I prob fail it on the explanation parts of the questions,maybe not the correct terminology or not explained correctly but they should be able to mark the answers with a degree of he knows what he's on about but not quite got all the words right but still give him the answer as right.

And also another thing is why can't they give you the result on each part of the paper marks for the first 20 and likewise the last 6 and then if you do fail it would give you some indication of what part of the paper your coming up short on.

I mean when I did the 17th some years ago you had a breakdown of results for the relevant parts of the exam and there corresponding percentages.

Thats my take on the exam.

 

[Chr!s]

I'm with Steptoe on this one

Its a good al-round test of theoretical and practical knowledge

Theres just as many who fail the practical side as the theory side of it.

If your a qualified electrician then this should be an easy exam, because its testing you on the things you should be doing most days of your life as an electrician.

If you fail the exam you would have to question your ability to design, construct and inspect and test electrical installations.

Though i do agree that anyone taking the exam, they would be wise to take time and brush up on the areas which you may not to knowledgeable.

 

[ADS]

I'm with Steptoe on this oneIts a good al-round test of theoretical and practical knowledge

Theres just as many who fail the practical side as the theory side of it.

If your a qualified electrician then this should be an easy exam, because its testing you on the things you should be doing most days of your life as an electrician.

If you fail the exam you would have to question your ability to design, construct and inspect and test electrical installations.

Though i do agree that anyone taking the exam, they would be wise to take time and brush up on the areas which you may not to knowledgeable.

Hi Plumber,

There's only one flaw in your argument - the entrance requirements laid out by 'City & Guilds'.

This qualification is intended for experienced personnel working in the electrical industry. Although City & Guilds does not state formal candidate entry requirements, the qualification is not intended for non-qualified electricians and/or those who do not have experience in inspecting, testing and certifying electrical installations

If these are adhered to, (when I took the exam 85% fit this criteria), then howcome the pass rate is 40%.

That translates to only 40% of sparks currently working in the industry are capable of passing the exam

Unshockable, you're in for a shock

 

[Chr!s]

If these are adhered to, (when I took the exam 85% fit this criteria), then howcome the pass rate is 40%.That translates to only 40% of sparks currently working in the industry are capable of passing the exam

Unshockable, you're in for a shock

Hi ADS

I agree that the 60% who are failing do not fit the criteria, lots taking the exam may have little experience especially if they gone the part P route, that's not to say people who have taken that route are not competent i dare say many are, its just that many probably wont of seen or tested much three phase or understand the theory side of three phase. Though in saying that there are also a lot of qualified electricians who also fail this exam.

I would suggest that people with little experience may be better suited to the 2392 level two exam and build their experience up from there.

I suppose what i was trying to say is that we all have level of competence and the 2391 gives us a guide to that level. Im not saying if you fail you cant carry out electrical work, it may be that your competence lies at working on just single phase domestic type installations.

 

[revjames]

I took the course last year. I found the cousrework was ample preparation for the theory exam. It may be better to take a 10 week course 1 night a week than a block course of a week. The practical exam was IMHO more of a challenge than the theory.

 

[Risteard]

I agree with the good Reverend. I did a course one night a week for 2391-10 and wasn't overly concerned with the theory. I was much more concerned about the practical due to time constraints etc.

I did 2391-20 as a four day course and got through it as well. So it can be done in a short time too.

I'm not sure whether it was steptoe or someone else mentioned that some people have good exam technique and I suspect this may be a factor. Some are perhaps scared by the thought of an extended written paper. In my opinion the closed-book nature is a benefit because you are not trying to read and interpret the Regulations at 90 miles per hour when formulating your answers unlike with 2391-303.

So best of luck and don't allow yourself to become too anxious and then there is no reason why you can't pass if you know and understand the content.

 

[ADS]

Hi ADSI agree that the 60% who are failing do not fit the criteria, lots taking the exam may have little experience especially if they gone the part P route, that's not to say people who have taken that route are not competent i dare say many are, its just that many probably wont of seen or tested much three phase or understand the theory side of three phase. Though in saying that there are also a lot of qualified electricians who also fail this exam.

I would suggest that people with little experience may be better suited to the 2392 level two exam and build their experience up from there.

I suppose what i was trying to say is that we all have level of competence and the 2391 gives us a guide to that level. Im not saying if you fail you cant carry out electrical work, it may be that your competence lies at working on just single phase domestic type installations.

Hi Chris,

I agree with everything you've said here.

The point I was trying (unsuccessfully) to make was that it doesn't matter how qualified you are as an electrician, it doesn't mean you will be capable of passing the 2391 first go, nor should anyone just expect to.

It takes a lot of hard work and study and it shouldn't be be-littled like some of the comments here are doing.

You could serve your time, have a load of certificates and 30 years experience - but never picked up a test meter in your life.

Indeed, a lot of larger firms work on this basis now....... installers go around first and second fixing and are followed around by 'competent' persons, inspecting and testing their work for them.

This was the case on my 2391 course, we had a lot of very clever, very experienced electricians - but not many of them new much about testing.

The pass rate in my class reflected the national average, about 42%.

Cheers

 

[unshockable]

Well i took a two day test inspect course last week, have also bought a fluke 1652b, that should be here in a few days, i think i can do it, but i am also thinking that even if i fail the first time, all of the study will make me a much better spark. going to try and book the exam for decemer 2nd, and dedicate my life till then reading up and playing with the fluke

 

[steptoe]

Trouble is steps they keep changing things I started with the 16th edition although when I first started training as an electrician it probably was the 15th edition I think. My boss was just using up the last of the dark green sleeving and he had a wind up megger for testing. Now I hope I could pass the 2391 with a bit of a read up but I certainly would have to read up as they call things different I mean it was eebads in the 16th now its ads whats it all about. Ccu was cooker control unit now its customer consumer unit I really cannot see the point of changing things just to keep people in work because really thats what its all about.

Well i took a two day test inspect course last week, have also bought a fluke 1652b, that should be here in a few days, i think i can do it, but i am also thinking that even if i fail the first time, all of the study will make me a much better spark. going to try and book the exam for decemer 2nd, and dedicate my life till then reading up and playing with the fluke

have you got a course booked in as well?

no offence meant unshockable,

but I strongly recommend a 3or4 day course at least,

otherwise it may just be a waste of money.

 

[kme]

I know that when I went in for the 2391 practical; 75% of the class came in that evening, just to WATCH me doing the practical. I was actually allowed 30 mins extra by the examiner, for the time taken in responding to questions (which they`d been told they weren`t to ask)...

5 of the class didn`t even turn up for their written or practicals - they dropped out.

You HAVE to know what you`re doing, and why (even more important than what, for the exam), IMO

Regarding the comment about using incorrect terminology - I think the rationale behind that is along the lines of:

"If you can`t even remember the right words to describe it, what makes you think you`ll remember the right way to DO it"

I could be wrong, but that is my take on it.

KME

 

[steptoe]

one of the big things our lecturer kept bringing up was incorrect terminology for that exact reason.

like he said,

there is no such thing as a MAIN EARTH ,

if there is where is the secondary earth at.?

if you dont know what the cable is or does how can you be expected to know what results you will get from testing it.?

 

[unshockable]

mmmm the two day course was a waste of time, the teacher was crap, i have booked a four day course for the 2391, exam dec 2, i will just have to study up, as said in other posts also have a fluke now so will practice loads with that, i might also do an online course they are only about 40 squid..anyone done one

 

[steptoe]

I think with testing online is a waste of time,

if you are not testing then clicking a mouse isnt gonna make you any better.

I have been testing for nigh on 20yrs, and have in fact got a CITB from '95 ,

and I still learn different techniques,

if you cant already test and are unsure of how to interpet the results then you may well be setting yourself up for a fall doing the 2391,

and IMO I think that is the sole reason the pass rate is so low,

too many people think they can when very obviously they havent got a clue.

not my opinion, the results speak for themselves actually.

 

[kme]

Well i took a two day test inspect course last week, have also bought a fluke 1652b, that should be here in a few days, i think i can do it, but i am also thinking that even if i fail the first time, all of the study will make me a much better spark. going to try and book the exam for decemer 2nd, and dedicate my life till then reading up and playing with the fluke

Didn`t you say yesterday that you had an Elecsa assessment booked for tomorrow?? How does that work?