Tier 4

[Phoenix]

if it was that black and white why has the world taken the course of action it has?

Because, oviously the course of action it has taken has worked so well...

History has taught us, that what happens is people get caught up in these things, you start off down a road that seems the only way, and it gets more and more difficult to accept that it was probably wrong from the start (admitting mistakes is something the political classes do not do). Generally you get some scientists who have either mis-red or manipulated data, convince the polititions of it who at first take little notice, then it generally gets whipped up into a storm by the media, the polititions think they ought to do something, and it all starts snowballing, billions get thrown at ineffective solutions and it generally the problem goes away on its own and those in power concratulate themselves on an amazing job they have done. This has just been whipped up into a bigger storm than most.

Yes its a bit nastier than flu, buts justification for being careful around those that are more vunerable around that sort of infection, washing hands more and basically control measures that are likely to slow the spread down and protect the vunerable without having serious 'side-effects' on the whole country.

Its not even if everyone is susceptible, early on on the year there were about 3500 folk on the diamond princess cruise ship, about 700 of them would later test positive, yes everyone was eventually confined to cabins, but bearing in mind that approx a quarter were positive and the spread is generally exponential, its highly likely there were high levels of virus being passes about on board, and while some of the un-infected passengers may have simply been lucky enough to avoid exposure to it, it does point to a lot of us not being subsceptible to it

 

[Phoenix]

It's a virus, you can't catch it if you keep away from each other and clean your hands, it's simple, but this is the fundamental thing that people are incapable of doing. 

Very good on paper, but very difficult to do in any sort of water-tight (virus-tight?) way in practice. Even more so now that they said we all need to use masks in the supermakert, so now you have people pulling on their mask and then touching contact surfaces around the shop before pulling it off at the end.

I've got no doubt that in some situations (people standing and chatting and breating directly at each other, for instance) that masks do prevent some infections, but in most real world situations, they also create additional risks elsewhere, the net gain has got to be close to zero in most uncontrolled environments

 

[binky]

fact is, as a society we have become more selfish and less society orientated, and having Boris's dad skiddadle off to Greece by devious means, and Cummings doing his little party trick and not getting sacked for it has just emphasised to ordinary  people that we can't trust the government and that double standards are normal. So why listen to anyone in authority? 

I was talking to a vicar whilst testing a church last week. He was from Korea and couldn't believe how ill-disciplined we are in light of the pandemic.

I'm with @boltonsparky on this whole issue. THe first lockdown should have been maintained longer and been much firmer. I reckon we could have eliminated the virus if we had really tried, therby stopping all this slow, long term pain. I feel really sorry for the entertainment and hospitality industries - must be dreadful to watch your business die by a thousand cuts! 

 

[Murdoch]

 we can't trust the government and that double standards are normal. So why listen to anyone in authority? 

Don't forget the hypocrites in the Labour party, the Liberal Party and the SNP - ALL these muppets are not leading by example 

 

[binky]

Don't forget the hypocrites in the Labour party, the Liberal Party and the SNP - ALL these muppets are not leading by example 

I'm not, but it's always worse when the bunch currently in charge don't lead by example.

 

[Murdoch]

Where the misses works in the NHS you would have hoped the matrons and head of department would lead by example ..... but no, they will be sitting at home whilst the workers do all the antisocial 24 x 7 shifts 

I think it’s disgraceful - what a terrible example they are setting

 

[septiclecky]

Where the misses works in the NHS you would have hoped the matrons and head of department would lead by example ..... but no, they will be sitting at home whilst the workers do all the antisocial 24 x 7 shifts 

I think it’s disgraceful - what a terrible example they are setting

No such thing as a Matron in a hospital anymore

 

[Murdoch]

No such thing as a Matron in a hospital anymore

it’s what my misses refers the layer below head of department as .....

 

[revjames]

We are in Wales and as a devolved nation under the power of Labour first minister Mark Drayford. There has been a rise in cases , mainly in S Wales and areas like Wrexham. Here on Anglesey its 27 cases per 100000 which is 0.027% (I think). In his wisdom he has locked the whole country down. 7 hours notice, no non essential shopping, meeting indoors etc etc. No Christmas shopping, no dropping presents off before Christmas. Personally I think he should have locked down only the worst affected areas. As it is he had already shut the pubs down by stopping them selling alcohol. It seems there is an agenda to shut businesses and get us all shopping in big supermarkets and online places like Amazon (who are all doing really well through all this). Badly handled all round.

 

[phil d]

We're an island. Should have been a severe lockdown in march, not the mickey take that they actually attempted in March, Police and army on the streets asking people what they're doing and heavy fines for anyone not following the rules, borders closed to anyone. 

Ease out of lockdown but borders still closed to people, goods in only. Once rate of infection is down, reopen the borders to people in but only let loose after a 30 day quarantine. 

Do it right do it once. 

It's a virus, you can't catch it if you keep away from each other and clean your hands, it's simple, but this is the fundamental thing that people are incapable of doing. 

I was talking to a freind of mine abroad and he said we (the UK) are the laughing stock of the world at the moment, as an island we were in an ideal position to quarantine but we didn't, I seriously suspect that Boris doesn't know the meaning of the word!

In the begining we should have stopped all travel in or out of the country and got ourselves sorted out, it's pointless keeping our own people locked up and then allowing others to travel in from anywhere in the world, that defeats everything. As for most of bojo's idea's, well my 10 year old grandaughter could have done better ffs, air bridges, so you couldn't fly from a source country directly into the UK but you could fly from say China to Germany then on to here, yeah, so the virus thinks, 'hmm I'm not allowed in the UK so I will leave this person and stay in Germany' yeah like that's going to happen.

The handling of the whole thing by the nhs has been no better, they had an outbreak in the offices at the local hospital where my wife works, caused no less than by staff working on a covid ward being allowed to use a dining room used by the rest of the hospital, without changing out of the clothes they wore on the ward! They sent all the office staff to work from home and were basically doing ****** all, the wife is asthmatic but was told she had to go in as her job couldn't be done from home, I had a right argument with her boss, she thought she was clever until I asked if the HSE had been notified, she said there was no need, WRONG, it's notifiable under RIDDOR! I informed her of this and also that if there were deaths as a result of her actions then it would be her in court to explain her actions, finally she got onto the infection control team, their idea of a deep clean was to send the regular cleaners in, they made such a good job there was still dust on the picture fram on my wifes desk afterwards!

we had the latest cock up this weekend, a mass exodus from London, people should not have been allowed to travel but they were, and did, now they are talking about putting police on bus and rail stations to stop it, too little too late in my opinion! If you ask me all those who live in London and have run off to relatives should be fined heavily on their return, we were told that we could only meet up with people on Christmas day, so if that's the case where are all these people now, and how will they get back to London on Boxing day, there are no trains!

You watch, once again it's all about London, we will all end up in a hard lockdown thanks to the behaviour of some selfish southerners, I hope I don't encounter any where I live because I will be straight onto the police demanding they are sent back! My wife and I had Covid, in March last year, long before it officially existed and it was bad, very bad, we both spent3 days in bed, breathing was extremely difficult and we were sweating like crazy, it took weeks to feel anything like normal, at the time we just thought it was the flu, but later on when the whole Covid thing broke, we recognised the symptoms.

There is not only the physical side of it, there are financial and mental health issues too, as some of you know I have MH issues and was just getting back on my feet when all this happened, my confidence was coming back, I had done some training and found a job on the railways earning a thousand pounds a week, all was rosy in the garden, then it all collapsed, I lost my job, my confidence took a knock and I'm back to staying at home most days, sometimes I really do feel it's not worth going on. I think that if something isn't done properly and soon there will be rioting in the streets, we are now being told that this situation could well go on long into 2021, well if that is the case god help this government if we have a long hot summer because this country will burn!

People have had enough, you can't travel, neither can I, but if you're a politician, a celebrity, or a toff then go where you like, it's wrong and people are sick of it, if it does all kick off there is no way of stopping it, thanks to cutbacks we have not the resources, Britain will burn, mark my words.

 

[phil d]

Where the misses works in the NHS you would have hoped the matrons and head of department would lead by example ..... but no, they will be sitting at home whilst the workers do all the antisocial 24 x 7 shifts 

I think it’s disgraceful - what a terrible example they are setting

We haven't had matrons since the early 80's they were replaced with non clinical ward managers, who by the very nature of their contracts are not permitted to work evenings or weekends, so they have no real idea of what goes on in the hospital, I've just read a fascinating book on the NHS, written by a retired nurse and it was an eye opener, back in the day the matron was almost godlike, what she said went and she knew how to run a hospital, now she's been replaced by pen pushers who's only interest are figures on computers. They have stopped loads of clinics in the hospitals, ENT, GYNAE, Dermatology, to name but a few, now it is my wifes job in our hospital to arrange appointments for people to attend these clinics. It's bad enough that she has a constant stream of members of the public ringing her asking when they will get their appointment,( instead of sending out letters saying that these clinics have been suspended for the forseeable future, they keep suspending them for a month or two) but she also gets emails from other departments telling her that waiting lists are rising and breach dates are being passed, ffs, they KNOW there are no clinics, so why keep asking the wife what she is going to do about it? 

 

[boltonsparky]

I was talking to a freind of mine abroad and he said we (the UK) are the laughing stock of the world at the moment, as an island we were in an ideal position to quarantine but we didn't, I seriously suspect that Boris doesn't know the meaning of the word!

In the begining we should have stopped all travel in or out of the country and got ourselves sorted out, it's pointless keeping our own people locked up and then allowing others to travel in from anywhere in the world, that defeats everything. As for most of bojo's idea's, well my 10 year old grandaughter could have done better ffs, air bridges, so you couldn't fly from a source country directly into the UK but you could fly from say China to Germany then on to here, yeah, so the virus thinks, 'hmm I'm not allowed in the UK so I will leave this person and stay in Germany' yeah like that's going to happen.

The handling of the whole thing by the nhs has been no better, they had an outbreak in the offices at the local hospital where my wife works, caused no less than by staff working on a covid ward being allowed to use a dining room used by the rest of the hospital, without changing out of the clothes they wore on the ward! They sent all the office staff to work from home and were basically doing ****** all, the wife is asthmatic but was told she had to go in as her job couldn't be done from home, I had a right argument with her boss, she thought she was clever until I asked if the HSE had been notified, she said there was no need, WRONG, it's notifiable under RIDDOR! I informed her of this and also that if there were deaths as a result of her actions then it would be her in court to explain her actions, finally she got onto the infection control team, their idea of a deep clean was to send the regular cleaners in, they made such a good job there was still dust on the picture fram on my wifes desk afterwards!

we had the latest cock up this weekend, a mass exodus from London, people should not have been allowed to travel but they were, and did, now they are talking about putting police on bus and rail stations to stop it, too little too late in my opinion! If you ask me all those who live in London and have run off to relatives should be fined heavily on their return, we were told that we could only meet up with people on Christmas day, so if that's the case where are all these people now, and how will they get back to London on Boxing day, there are no trains!

You watch, once again it's all about London, we will all end up in a hard lockdown thanks to the behaviour of some selfish southerners, I hope I don't encounter any where I live because I will be straight onto the police demanding they are sent back! My wife and I had Covid, in March last year, long before it officially existed and it was bad, very bad, we both spent3 days in bed, breathing was extremely difficult and we were sweating like crazy, it took weeks to feel anything like normal, at the time we just thought it was the flu, but later on when the whole Covid thing broke, we recognised the symptoms.

There is not only the physical side of it, there are financial and mental health issues too, as some of you know I have MH issues and was just getting back on my feet when all this happened, my confidence was coming back, I had done some training and found a job on the railways earning a thousand pounds a week, all was rosy in the garden, then it all collapsed, I lost my job, my confidence took a knock and I'm back to staying at home most days, sometimes I really do feel it's not worth going on. I think that if something isn't done properly and soon there will be rioting in the streets, we are now being told that this situation could well go on long into 2021, well if that is the case god help this government if we have a long hot summer because this country will burn!

People have had enough, you can't travel, neither can I, but if you're a politician, a celebrity, or a toff then go where you like, it's wrong and people are sick of it, if it does all kick off there is no way of stopping it, thanks to cutbacks we have not the resources, Britain will burn, mark my words.

You can pretty much sum up every move the government has made during this pandemic with the saying "closing the door after the horse has bolted".

It's not an easy thing to manage or govern through, nobody is saying it is, but the shower of excrement we have in charge and how poorly they've managed the situation is frightening, and like you say we're a worldwide laughing stock, and that's before anything is mentioned about the brexit fiasco that's simmering away on the back burner.  

 

[Murdoch]

You can pretty much sum up every move the government has made during this pandemic with the saying "closing the door after the horse has bolted".

It's not an easy thing to manage or govern through, nobody is saying it is, but the shower of excrement we have in charge and how poorly they've managed the situation is frightening, and like you say we're a worldwide laughing stock, and that's before anything is mentioned about the brexit fiasco that's simmering away on the back burner.  

But the problems get worse when all we hear from the opposition are comments made in hindsight .............

AND large parts of the population have never abided by the stay safe guidance either.

 

[Sharpend]

What’s missing is those good old Christian values of Discipline and Obedience, wonder why they might be missing? 

 

[phil d]

But the problems get worse when all we hear from the opposition are comments made in hindsight .............

AND large parts of the population have never abided by the stay safe guidance either.

Quite, I had thought, rather naively that ALL political parties would have set aside their differences and worked together on the pandemic, after all it affects everyone, Labour, Tory, or whoever, but no, it all descended into points scoring and slagging each other off!

It's the same with a lot of ordinary people too, I'm sick to death of older people wearing a mask just over their mouths, leaving their noses exposed, or the young who treat it all as a joke, the summer was one long party for a lot of them, one of our neighbours had friends round partying every day for a week, then got all upset when her neighbour, a nurse, finally reported her! Even tonight as I came out of the shop, a gang of young lads aged about 16 to 17 barged in, one not wearing a mask, "well I'm exempt aint I " he said with a laugh. There was one moment in his stupidity that was funny though, as they barged in, shoving past people, he went to shove me, then looked up and thought better of it, obviously a fairly tall fairly well built skinhead in a leather jacket with a cut off denim on top was a bit more than he felt capable of dealing with, I'm a bit harder than a pensioner! I glared at him, gave him a shove and told him to "wear a mask ********" .I do hope he's wearing one next time I run into him, or he may find himself needing an oxygen mask, this situation is one in which we all depend on each other, it's pointless some of us following the rules if others do not, this is truly one of those situations when we really are 'all in it together' . Everyone is stressed for one reason or another, maybe like me you lost your job because of it, maybe again like me, your mental health is suffering because of it, or maybe like thousands of others you are worried about elderly parents or your loved ones, whatever your reason, you have a right to feel stressed and the idiots not following the rules doesn't make it any easier, those who don't want to comply need locking up for the greater good, sadly I think it's the only way these brain dead idiots are going to learn.

 

[binky]

Quite, I had thought, rather naively that ALL political parties would have set aside their differences and worked together on the pandemic, after all it affects everyone, Labour, Tory, or whoever, but no, it all descended into points scoring and slagging each other off!

 well, it started off well, but as Boris dithers and dithers and deals death by non-action, it's not too surprising the opposition is starting to break ranks. t so f'ing irritating, failt to act, allow virus to spread, bring vaguely under control but at high levels, virus in the meantime mutates coz it's had lots of people and time to do that, possibly redering vaccine useless. Net result, terminal for many businesses, high unemployment, and generally firked economy and we still havn't got a brexit deal so we can really firk the economy without one of those. Was it Thatcher who once desribed us as the 'poor man of Europe' - seems that's exactly where we are going. 

 

[Sharpend]

 well, it started off well, but as Boris dithers and dithers and deals death by non-action, it's not too surprising the opposition is starting to break ranks. t so f'ing irritating, failt to act, allow virus to spread, bring vaguely under control but at high levels, virus in the meantime mutates coz it's had lots of people and time to do that, possibly redering vaccine useless. Net result, terminal for many businesses, high unemployment, and generally firked economy and we still havn't got a brexit deal so we can really firk the economy without one of those. Was it Thatcher who once desribed us as the 'poor man of Europe' - seems that's exactly where we are going. 

this is because we are too busy trying to help all others which is fine but you really need to be in control of your own ship first. 

 

[phil d]

Had a real heartbreaker just before Christmas, a young man came to the hospital my wife works at, one of those small community hospitals, his elderly mother (95) was on the ward here, it's called the 'respite' ward, but most people on there are dying, as we used to say, they're on their last legs! So this chap has driven a couple of hundred miles to see his mother, and the nurse on the ward won't let him in, it may not do her health any good!

He was telling someone about this and my wife happened to overhear his story, she called the woman in charge of the hospital and thankfully common sense prevailed and he was allowed to see her. If she's dying anyway, what difference does it make, he had his mask on and wasn't showing any symptoms, it can't be good mentally for the families of these people and it certainly can't be good for them in their final days, somehow I can't see the hoi polloi being denied access to a dying relative, imagine Phil or Liz being in hospital breathing their last, they'd be surrounded by family members.

 

[binky]

this is because we are too busy trying to help all others which is fine but you really need to be in control of your own ship first. 

 Charity begins at home - I'm not adverse to that point of view. You have to remember though, we are still a lot better off than most countries, and most foreign aid is some form of power politics on the world stage that I don't quite understand the benefit of other than ort status as a world power. If you ask me, it's time we stopped trying to be a world power and sorted life out at home. Get the economy working for all levels of society and hey presto we will have the money to be a world power again, not just some half dead former empire builder. 

 

[Murdoch]

 If you ask me, it's time we stopped trying to be a world power and sorted life out at home. Get the economy working for all levels of society and hey presto we will have the money to be a world power again, not just some half dead former empire builder. 

hit, nail and head spring to mind.

it’s worked for Germany for the last 75 years