TT earth systems versus TN earth systems

[danmoriarty]

Would it not just be prudent to install a rod on every installation regardless of the supplied earth arrangement's, even it is just as a "fail safe" alternative route to earth?

Ill just post this as well:

http://download.hager.com/hagergroup.co.uk/files_download/Hager_Product_Information/ConsumerUnitGuideToThe17thEdition.pdf

probably an insult to most peoples intelligence but its a nice little document on the use of rcds in a domestic

 

[steptoe]

Would it not just be prudent to install a rod on every installation regardless of the supplied earth arrangement's, even it is just as a "fail safe" alternative route to earth? Ill just post this as well:

http://download.hager.com/hagergroup.co.uk/files_download/Hager_Product_Information/ConsumerUnitGuideToThe17thEdition.pdf

probably an insult to most peoples intelligence but its a nice little document on the use of rcds in a domestic

No.

 

[danmoriarty]

Ok

 

[MKS]

Wrote a huge bit about Multiple Earthed Neutral (MEN) and my stupid phone deleted it! Australian earth system!

 

[m4tty]

:slap what phone you using mk isn't an android by any chance is it lol ?

 

[park1]

I have to say Doc need's to choose his words carefully. I was accused in effect of being a five week wonder. In fact Doc showed his lack of knowledge on three phase design. I received an infraction because i treated the Doc in the same Manor, don't give it if you can't take it.

I have been involved in three threads recently, Touch voltage, Can this be done(Neutral current), Type C RCBO's, i have been subject to derogatory comments from Senior member's and Mod's, and the fact is the majority obviously do not understand, so they are rude and try to belittle.

I never had an apology from Doc, his unfounded comments showed his lack of design knowledge, fair play to Manator, he apologised over our misunderstanding and has my respect for doing so.

Non of us know it all, some know more than others, unfortunately if Doc reply's to threads in the way he does then he and the other Mod's need to accept members will show the same contempt.

A forum shouldn't be a two tier system.

 

[danmoriarty]

Steps, would you care to elaborate why I was wrong, or point me towards some reading material so that I may squeeze more knowledge between my ears

Pleeeeeeaseeee

 

[park1]

Steps, would you care to elaborate why I was wrong, or point me towards some reading material so that I may squeeze more knowledge between my ears Pleeeeeeaseeee

Your not wrong, though its not always as straight forward as just banging a rod in, a lot depends upon the Earthing Arrangement.

 

[steptoe]

Steps, would you care to elaborate why I was wrong, or point me towards some reading material so that I may squeeze more knowledge between my ears Pleeeeeeaseeee

I'll have a bash later Dan,

but a lot of it comes down to the type of install and the current earthing arrangements,

the dangerous situation in simply putting a rod in is we have NO control over the next numpty spark to come along and have NO idea what he is looking at, perhaps assuming its TT and disconnecting the TN conductor,

and other variations on the theme, IYSWIM.

 

[Doc Hudson]

I have to say Doc need's to choose his words carefully. I was accused in effect of being a five week wonder. In fact Doc showed his lack of knowledge on three phase design. I received an infraction because i treated the Doc in the same Manor, don't give it if you can't take it.I have been involved in three threads recently, Touch voltage, Can this be done(Neutral current), Type C RCBO's, i have been subject to derogatory comments from Senior member's and Mod's, and the fact is the majority obviously do not understand, so they are rude and try to belittle.

I never had an apology from Doc, his unfounded comments showed his lack of design knowledge, fair play to Manator, he apologised over our misunderstanding and has my respect for doing so.

Non of us know it all, some know more than others, unfortunately if Doc reply's to threads in the way he does then he and the other Mod's need to accept members will show the same contempt.

A forum shouldn't be a two tier system.

And what relevance does this have to the OP's question or the threads subject, unless you are somehow trying to suggest that RCD's should be fitted to every 17th edition circuit and its is always safer just to bang in an RCD and I was wrong trying to highlight the anomaly in the statements made? Or maybe its just an excuse to hi-jack someone else's thread for a moan? That is a positive way to encourage good forum manners. You can define and run a forum however you want if you set it up. If you dislike this so much you are under no obligation to stay.

Doc H.

 

[danmoriarty]

Lovely stuff I look forward to my bedtime reading.

Admins: is it possible we can move the argument out of the thread so that it is not entangled with the useful info?

 

[park1]

And what relevance does this have to the OP's question or the threads subject, unless you are somehow trying to suggest that RCD's should be fitted to every 17th edition circuit and its is always safer just to bang in an RCD and I was wrong trying to highlight the anomaly in the statements made? Or maybe its just an excuse to hi-jack someone else's thread for a moan? That is a positive way to encourage good forum manners. You can define and run a forum however you want if you set it up. If you dislike this so much you are under no obligation to stay.Doc H.

Is this not the case with 90% of threads on here, they do seem to go off on a tangent. And I'm not suggesting anything in regard to the OP's question. Your are entitled to your opinion the same as all, it's difficult at times to describe the question that's meant, you should know that more than most your a "MOD"!You implied I was a 5ww and showed a lack of knowledge, yet it was YOU who hasn't the knowledge and produced a post which will mislead others especially when your a respected Mod! Yet you show your concern that other's will mislead, pot and kettle spring to mind, lol.

Again you are implying other's of being a "Domestic Electrician" or a "Short Course Electrician", what do you describe your self as?

A Domestic Electrician? You don't understand Phaser's clearly, this is 2330 level 3 stuff and not difficult, so other than Installing you shouldn't be Designing or Inspecting and Testing Poly-phase Circuit's.

Think before you speak, that goes for all and this forum will be a better place.

And as for going to another forum, well I use other forums, and its all water off a duck's back lol, you see I can take it, but I can also give it.Nothing wrong with a good heated discussion, but one thing you will learn, I don't make unfounded claims, I can and do back up my post's and if I'm proven wrong, I'm happy to hold my hands up and learn.

 

[unphased]

mr smith

this is a most unwelcome and unwanted meddling

your appearance on this thread with

your weird and menacing phrase

is also out of order

If I feel an apology to mr husdon

is appropriate, mr smith,

I will issue one

You keep out of it

I can see that mr hudson is a highly respected

and liked

member of this forum

I can also see he thinks

very highly of himself

mr smith

this quote

"judging by the reputation received

does not currently fit either of these categories"

is illeterate drivel

mr hudson cannot look after himself

then

admin 3 and mr smith have also to

gang up on mr phased

and add insult

to injury

that is bullying

for future reference

it is noted that

arguing a case with any moderator

through the pm system

will lead to the message being posted

with its reply

on the open forum

to allow the other members to make their own judgments

mr phased is not surprised by this childish

act of mistrust on the part

of mr smith

"mr smith would suggest

that if mr phased wishes to pass as intelligent

he may wish to either

spell check his posts

or learn to spell properly"

mr phased was typing quickly

and may have hit a few wrong keys

this does not make mr phased a thicko

as implyed mr smoth

mr phased suggests, being aware that the current posting style

of mr smith is weird and filled with menace,

like the deliberately menacing logo that mr smith uses,

that perhaps mr smith needs to keep out of other peoles business

unphased

|

Like

just call me mr smith

 

[Manator]

See, now I have a problem with those who think they know more than others, if you are going to talk about a poly phase system for instance it is proven that there are a multitude of problems with this type of supply. The idea behind a poly phase is for motors, and the main problem we encounter are larger voltage drops on the neutral which knocks the phases out of true 90 degrees.

I have been in the business for more years than I care to remember, and yet each day I can and do learn something new.

Having a go at a moderator, and posting in the like of, just shows a lack of respect. I am willing to pass on any information that I can so that people can benefit from all the experience I have gained, and equally I learn from the very good debates given on this forum.

I do know for a fact that if you had posted so on another forum you would have been given a red card, that is the difference with this forum, we are willing to put up with some level of abuse, and moderators are not above any member and use the powers they do have very carefully.

Mr Smith is not an electrician, but a very good judge of character and does not like any childish behaviour, his posts are stylist that's how he has always been, Doc Hudson is from an electrical background and from memory has a long list of qualifications, some of which even I have not achieved. We all can from time to time be mistaken, we can from time to time take things the wrong way, but I like to think we have a very good forum here where we can all learn something without being one up on everybody else.

 

[danmoriarty]

Sooooooooooo when do we get back to the learning bit?

 

[Manator]

Well, if you want we could start with a pro and con, for or against debate, people really do overcomplicate earthing systems, and most look at TT as some kind of voodoo. I am sure some point will come from this thread! RCD's are being phased out in 2022, I have that from a very good source, I think he said his name was Aristotle.

 

[sb_89]

Just out of curiosity, how often do you guys come across TT systems ? Can't say I've worked on more than a handful, and when I have, i have my regs at hand all the time. I'm not new to this either before anyone opens that chestnut, I do mainly commercial, a bit of light industrial and domestic when I have to. I know it's unlikely to get a TT system in a commercial or industrial application, I just don't see many houses with one either, more of a rural thing I guess ?

 

[MKS]

According to Nostradamus Mana, we might not see 2022 lol Just trying to lighten the load

 

[Steve3948]

Well I don't like TT, and the only reason is I hate the look of an earth inspection box flush or surface, I don't like to see conduit going to it. Always seem to be a pain getting a decent place for rod in the ground, either concrete over-site, or fear of hitting other service, drainage system etc.

BUT there may be a reason, when I was an apprentice I was given the task of putting the rod in, thought just to the side of the front door would be ideal, so I proceeded and was very proud of my first attempt.

However a couple of days later the client phoned my boss and asked what the metal spike in the cellar was all about.

We called in and I was red faced as 1ft of the spike was sticking down through the ceiling.

My boss cut the 1ft off and thought that was it, but when it rained it started dripping through the ceiling.

The spike had to be moved and they repaired the hole with melted tar.

Hence give me <0.8 or <0.35 any day.

 

[Sidewinder]

... Type C RCBO's, ...

I seem to remember participating in the above thread, I don't remember berating anyone.

If I did I apologise, as it was not intended, this communications medium is prone to misunderstanding.

However, I have not posted any more in that thread, and have no desire to, as, it seems that there are others here who know much more than I do on that particular topic, but it also seems none are willing to explain things from basic fundamental science and engineering first principles, which I started, but was told by those who know better that the approach was not valid and it seemed I knew nothing.

So it seems that new members are not the only ones who are taken for idiots, it seems I am also.