Tutorials

[steptoe]

1

Main Earthing Conductors are NOT a recognised terminology

2

Ring Mains only became Ring Finals fairly recently, so I would exempt any older SPARK from the wrong terminology,

notice how I have actually used the word SPARK and NOT electrician.

3

only a wannabe would even suggest that,

even in the days of old it was NOT said,

maybe you like to think you were somewhere you werent.!?

4

oh dear, maybe we have hit the nail on the head there.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

:QUOTE=Sidewinder;231055]Herr Tesla,

Once again, you have nothing constructive to say.

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And how are you being constuctive? Everytime i look at one of your posts all you have to say is how amazing you are?.You have not answered any of my questions yet even though i have asked you on a number of occasions.

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I went against my personal rule not to give direct answers to questions but to guide the questioner to suitable official guidance and gave you direct explanations and still all you can do is offer abusive answers.

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As i said i asked what it was you had trouble grasping but you simply decided to waffle on everytime with your head getting bigger and bigger

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Oh and by the way, on the IET forum, which you mentioned earlier, there is not the plethora of learners that are on here who in the early stages of their career would be impressionable.

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Don't kid yourself..........Anyway ive never been lost in understanding any of their posts. Maybe you have

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Once again all you seem to be able to do is abuse those who post, why are you such a Luddite?

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I think you will find the abuse started from your badself, and that you say i dont understand and therfore must find another "vocation" i believe.

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Finally you have also not answered the question I posed to you in my last message even though I took the time to explain my situation to you.

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Finally? I wish it was finally, im sick of reading your boasts.

You have not answered the question i posed to you but you instead decided to tell me that you teach etc..........Not interested!

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You are being such an abusive and disruptive poster who seems to be doing everything that you can to misguide impressionable learners that I am lost for a way to educate you and explain the issues that you may be causing to these people.

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I dont want help like that if you dont mind. What help are you giving if all you do instead of answering a question is massage your ego

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We are NOT in a classroom or lecture theatre.

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Thats right, you are not my headmaster, so stop acting like you are!

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You profess to be an expert, yet you cannot use professional terms in your questions or answers.

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Again with the ego trip and abuse

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Give it a rest . Your help/abuse is not wanted

************************************

If you really wanted to help all you had to do is quickly correct the mistake and carry on but instead you decided to write snide comments

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I am exasperated at your lack of respect for those entering the trade and striving to better themselves and learn the correct terminology and be professional practitioners.

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I do have respect for those entering the trade and will and do help where i can.

Such a person may be a 5WFW as has been mentioned on this thread, and we all know what the F bit stands for don't we. This shows no respect for the afore mentioned entering the trade. So stop contradicting yourself and stop clogging up this thread. :good night:

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 00:09 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:04 ----------

1notice how I have actually used the word SPARK and NOT electrician.

.

Im not bothered, thats yours and the snakes argument. Can you not grasp that?

 

[Apache]

Maybe a moderator could move this thread into the jokes section? Not had such a good laugh for some time

 

[Sidewinder]

It appears that someone considers that my post at #81 is childish.

Herr Tesla,

Your response at post #86 is honestly very difficult to follow on my computer here, as there is little to differentiate your quotes and your replies, now that may be a forum software issue, it may not.

I don't see any point in trying to respond to any points you raise there in as I'm sure that you will only find another way to post an abusive message to me should I slightly misinterpret your meanings due to the way the post has displayed. The way the post has displayed may well not be how you intended it to so there is nothing to be gained from arguing over that.

If there are any points in there that are relevant then please re-post them.

I answered your point with regard to what could not be understood.

I fail to see in your post number #56 where your are obtaining your values from as I have explained as you are not using correctly the recognised terms.

As you are lambasting me all the time, then I don't feel that I should make assumptions as to which information is what, which could be incorrect only for you to then go on to further threaten and abuse me in your posts.

So in my opinion I have answered your question as to what I consider the information that cannot be understood is in my post no #74.

Silly thing is earlier in the thread it appears you utilised correct terminology, for some of the relevant information, it may be then that you are just posting in a manner deliberately intended to confuse or wind people up?

What other question have I not answered?

I am very disappointed at your insistence that my being pedantic over units and symbols is just me being big headed, or perhaps childish, I am trying to make the point that in my experience, many learners, and even qualified electricians still do not use the correct terms, and this can cause them to fail exams and assessments, which they do, and they would perhaps not, if they did use the correct terms.

This idea seems to be reinforced by your post, and is seen in many other places.

Why are you so against this line of thinking?

I have not refused or avoided answering your question now as far as I can see, as per my post #74 I have explained what information I feel you should clarify and why.

If I now assume what information you have given in your post number #56 and my interpretation of the information is incorrect, then once again all I can see as the outcome will be further abuse from you in your subsequent posts.

What is the question it is that I am apparently avoiding?

 

[Voltimax]

Actually nicky you started the abuse by telling me I was talking rubbish. I think it's high time you stopped now. There are more people here against you than for you. I reckon you'll be testing mr smiths patience to it's limits rather soon if you keep this up.

 

[Riggy]

There are more people here against you than for you.

I wouldn't be too sure about that!

 

[Sidewinder]

Volti,

From where I am it's not about taking sides.

I just can't understand why Herr Tesla insists on spreading incorrect information which could taint the ideas of trainees and thus cause them issues in their learning.

Why can't he use the correct terms I don't know.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

I will apologize for my input in the thread going off topic, but I would just like to say my comment about giving Mr Tesla a karate lesson was meant in a context maybe not apparent.When learning karate you are not merely learning how to beat someone into submission. The most valuable lesson that can be learned is respect, that was the lesson I was offering to teach.

More often than not I find there are too many people on forums that show no respect to other members. Debate is good, poo pooing other peoples ideas is just disrespectful and shameful to boot.

It's hard enough in this economic climate at the moment and we should all be sticking together as a trade and supporting each other where we can. I originally came to forums to both offer and gain advice.

Once again I apologize for going off topic and apologies in particular to Manator since it's his thread.

Oss!

I apologise for saying you were talking rubbish earlier, i just worded it wrong. I was thinking of domestic testing in empty houses known as voids which i do on a regular basis, so when i see way off results on others test sheets i know the parallel paths are at a minimum from my experience and so the explanation of parallel paths is nonsense. Parallel paths on industrial sites are a completly different matter with metal trunking and conduit etc.

But i must say that being threatened with a karate "lesson" after the snakes posts did get me annoyed. so its all your fault

This could have all been sorted out without people talking down to me......I Hate That!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was made at 21:28 ----------

Volti,From where I am it's not about taking sides.

I just can't understand why Herr Tesla insists on spreading incorrect information which could taint the ideas of trainees and thus cause them issues in their learning.

Why can't he use the correct terms I don't know.

Did you mean taint the ideas of Five day ****ing wonders or was that your other half steptoe (dont deny it)

 

[Sidewinder]

Herr Tesla,

I had 8 fully qualified many of them time served with NVQ3 & traditional apprenticeships in a classroom last week on a 2391-10 course.

There was much confusion over the case of units and symbols, thus, I felt it appropriate to pull you up on your case of your symbols to ensure that no trainees of whatever persuasion would be confused or be given the incorrect information.

That is the crux of my issues with your posts.

Why would you want to post incorrect information that could be misinterpreted by those who are still learning and know no better as they are impressionable.

That is my problem with your posts and you seem unable to grasp this.

Once again I have to spell it out.

I don't quite get the "other half steptoe" bit?

If I had my way there would be no 5 day wonders.

 

[a3]

Just remember Gentlemen - Please play nicely

We wouldnt want Mr Smith to pop back in now would we ?

mr smith is afraid

that it is a little too late for that

mr 3

 

[Nicky Tesla]

Sorry Admin its just that a 5DW may also be a trainee and someone who is looking to better themselves and the snake says he gives trainees who are bettering themselves respect, but apparently not.

When there are no apprenticeships these days being a five day wonder may be the only way in. Ive worked with time served sparks with years of experience and they can be useless. This is why part p was brought in. Many complained about part p because it meant they had to start testing again and they would have to buy test gear which they should have had in the first place.

 

[Sidewinder]

Herr Tesla,

I NEVER SAID that a 5DW/5WW was not a trainee.

I do give trainees respect, however, you claim to be an expert.

Oh, I don't think that referring to me as "the snake" is very polite. I am not going to report you or anything so petty, to me it is just another example of your disrespect for a fellow forum member and another example of your poor attitude.

However, you still seem to be avoiding almost every question I ask you, whilst demanding answers from me for questions which I am not sure you have asked me.

Why do you insist on defending your dissemination of incorrect information, whilst seemingly suggesting that you are supporting short course trainees, who, by the very nature of their training NEED the correct information as there is little chance for them to correct mistakes in their training before they have their exams and assessments.

I have always been honest on here and I will NEVER agree that a 5 day or even 5 week course adequately prepares a new entrant to the trade to be competent.

If these courses were applied as conceived, then the entrants would be long experienced people who lacked formal qualifications, however, some training providers have seen a nice little earner and have manipulated these short courses as the be all and end all of training/re-training as a fully qualified electrician, which they can never be.

Now, Herr Tesla, can you please review your posts and advise me which question I have not answered, and please answer the questions I have posted to you, preferably without abuse and misinformation so that this thread can eventually become constructive again?

 

[Nicky Tesla]

read the plethora of posts, 59 61 & 66. Three times i have asked you. Read 57 from Ian while your at it he grasped it but you never had a pop at him for writing it down wrong

Side.......your avatar IS A SNAKE.........WHATS THE PROBLEM?

 

[pickleye]

Although Sidey can be a little pedantic, and admits it, he is right. When it comes to studies and exams he is spot on.

I've just finished my apprenticeship. One of the lads at college "lost points" in his exams because the tutor wrongly said putting "multifunction" was the correct answer for test equipment required.

On my 2391, 12 of the 17 failed. Tutor kept banging on (rightly) about correct terminology r1's and R1's, insulation resistance meter not Megger, line not live etc etc. Only little points you'd think but they all add up.

I spent best part of a year browsing the forum before I ever posted. I read posts, followed questions, and assumed that if you guys say so, it must be right.

That said, some people have no idea and its frustrating

 

[Nicky Tesla]

Ye no prob but this is not the world of exams...In an exam you have to be exact otherwise things can be duplicitous.

If someone said the phrase" R1+R2 on acooker circuit", would you need to ask if they said it in upper or lower case?

When real world electricians, the ones that dont spend all day in a classroom write something down, they may tend to forget for a moment exactly how some terms are written down, yet still fully undertand the term in question and so may just need a little friendly reminder . This does not make them incompetent and in need of another vocation.

 

[Sidewinder]

Herr Tesla,

I have already answered your post number #59 in my previous communications.

I have already explained the issues I have with the way you have utilised terms in your post number #61

I have already explained why I have issues with the way you have utilised terms in your previous posts which is what your post number #66 appears to refer to.

Please refer to my post number #74 which I thought explained the "error" in your ways.

Why do you insist on reinforcing your use of terms that do not exist in BS7671 & its associated documents as the de-facto standard, when in fat they are not, and that is my point.

IF you re-post your request for comparison of results utilising the correct BS7671 terms for everyone to be able to use the same references then anyone should be able to answer your points, however, you insist on using your own versions of terminology which are not recognised in standards and passing this off as "what others do", that is NOT the way a professional engineer behaves, you are claiming it appears to be such so please behave as one.

I have as far as I can see answered the questions that you have posed to me with respect to why I considered your terms ambiguous, yet you continue to abuse me and ignore the questions that I have asked you.

Yes my avatar is a snake, however your terminology and manner of posting is IMHO derogatory, which is unnecessary, and could be construed as abusive, ignorant, and down right rude.

Now can you please go back and review the questions and posts that have been posed at you with regard to this thread and answer the questions and put right your incorrect terminology with regard to BS7671 so that others can understand unambiguously the information you are providing.

 

[Mr Smith]

to all posters

mr smith was of the impression that this thread began

as an explanation of certain members collaboration

on a project beneficial to the forum at large

mr smith applauds such dedication from our esteemed members

however

mr smith will not stand idly by

whilst the thread is transformed into a free for all

tit for tat

this is the one

and only

warning

the bickering stops

or the thread stops

thankyou

mr smith

 

[Sidewinder]

Mr Smith,

I appreciate your point and thus will no longer enter into any debate with any other members on this thread.

Please note this is at a Mod request which I appreciate.

Herr Tesla, if you wish to continue our debate, please start a new thread, there is NO WAY I am going to upset Mr Smith.

 

[Apache]

Spoilsport.

 

[kme]

Spoilsport.

Which one of `em, mate ? Snakehips, or Mr. Smith? opcorn