Water Ingress To External Standalone Pir Detectors

[Hefferl]

Hi.

Recently I've been called out to two different sites where IP44 PIRs have failed due to water ingress - one which I had fitted. These are both quite exposed to the elements and of late, as you know, we've had more than our fair share of rain.

I'm looking for something which is more weatherproof and so far I've only been able to find a Timeguard nslb2000 which is IP55.

Does anyone have any experience of this product or know any other products they've installed that have proved to be reliable under these conditions?

Many thanks.

 

[batty]

Timeguard gear is generally better than the shed stuff and has a three year guarantee where  as shed stuff is 1 year. Steinel German gear is good but you pay more for it.

Fastlec forum sponsor does steinel 

 

[Evans Electric]

Hefferl, were these PIRs  T/H floods  ? 

Unfortunately, these days, we have to accept that a lot of what we buy is carp .  We all know where its made ,  the Quality Checker passes by on a motorbike!!

I've just had two examples of their rubbish products which, of course, cost me in time and money not the wholesaler or the manufacturer , just muggins  here.

First item was a photocell I'd fitted that was switching in daylight , office floods blazing away all day long.  Had to check my contactor and time switch first,all time you can't charge for.    Then the replacement did the same so third one I used a different make.

This involved taking a ladder to access a flat roof, and dragging pair of steps up there to reach the cell.

Then long standing customer says H&S  want a 3 hour test on Emgy. Spotlights although I fitted new batts in July.   I test them and they only managed 2 hours before going flat , so I'm spending extra time now getting replacements and will have to go and fit them. 

All made where everything is made these days of course.  

 

[batty]

These photocells certainly don't seem right to me. I  have a charity I do work for. They have two controlling some floods. intermittently they stay on. I must admit they are running quite a few floods and bulkheads and ideally would have been through a contactor but they have been fine for years. I have ordered some heavy duty ones to replace them . Time will tell if they last.

 

[binky]

have taken to drilling very fine hole in front of casing to allow water exit on cheapo Denmans units. Steinel defo much better

 

[Evans Electric]

You don't mean their rEterna range do you Binks?

 

[NozSpark]

You don't mean their rEterna range do you Binks?

I had a 400W Eterna security light (PIR) that filled with water a couple of weeks ago,, I wasn't very impressed especially as it was under a overhang and <18 months old

 

[Evans Electric]

Doesn't surprise me .

 

[ProDave]

"IP44"

"Object size protected against" >1mm

"Splashing water Water splashing against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effect. Test duration: 5 minutes

Water volume: 10 litres per minute
Pressure: 80–100 kPa"

So to be IP44 it has to have no holes >1mm diameter

And be able to withstand SPLASHING water for 5 minutes.

That does NOT IMHO make it suitable for outside use in constant rain for hours on end.

IMHO outside stuff should be IP65 or greater.

 

[dave2]

IMHO outside stuff should be IP65 or greater.

Could not agree more.

Stopped buying and fitting the cheepo units ages ago as they never last a year and I get the job to replace/refund.

Nowadays if customer wants a cheepo fitted then they buy and I install thus putting the onus back on them if item goes faulty.

 

[Hefferl]

"IP44"

"Object size protected against" >1mm

"Splashing water Water splashing against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effect. Test duration: 5 minutes

Water volume: 10 litres per minute

Pressure: 80–100 kPa"

So to be IP44 it has to have no holes >1mm diameter

And be able to withstand SPLASHING water for 5 minutes.

That does NOT IMHO make it suitable for outside use in constant rain for hours on end.

IMHO outside stuff should be IP65 or greater.

Good post Dave and I agree - trouble is getting hold of the IP65 stuff....

 

[Hefferl]

Hefferl, were these PIRs  T/H floods  ? 

Unfortunately, these days, we have to accept that a lot of what we buy is carp .  We all know where its made ,  the Quality Checker passes by on a motorbike!!

I've just had two examples of their rubbish products which, of course, cost me in time and money not the wholesaler or the manufacturer , just muggins  here.

First item was a photocell I'd fitted that was switching in daylight , office floods blazing away all day long.  Had to check my contactor and time switch first,all time you can't charge for.    Then the replacement did the same so third one I used a different make.

This involved taking a ladder to access a flat roof, and dragging pair of steps up there to reach the cell.

Then long standing customer says H&S  want a 3 hour test on Emgy. Spotlights although I fitted new batts in July.   I test them and they only managed 2 hours before going flat , so I'm spending extra time now getting replacements and will have to go and fit them. 

All made where everything is made these days of course.  

Both standalone PIRs.

Like you in one instance I replaced the original for the second to fail in the same manner - third one will have to be better!

 

[Steve3948]

These are the dogs

 

[Marvo]

have taken to drilling very fine hole in front of casing to allow water exit on cheapo Denmans units. Steinel defo much better

Is it okay to possibly reduce the manufacturers stated IP rating and would they still warranty the product if you drill it? We usually end up with insect problems when external enclosures aren't sealed, especially ants.  

IMHO outside stuff should be IP65 or greater.

Depending on the application and the quality of the product we often use IP5x for external use. IP65 or better is usually considerably more expensive.

I guess the golden rule is steer clear of the cheap nasty brands (or often un-branded/rebranded). We have it even worse down here, anything that doesn't make the grade in the EU tends to get dumped in the African market.   

 

[Apache]

"IP44"

"Object size protected against" >1mm

"Splashing water Water splashing against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effect. Test duration: 5 minutes

Water volume: 10 litres per minute

Pressure: 80–100 kPa"

So to be IP44 it has to have no holes >1mm diameter

And be able to withstand SPLASHING water for 5 minutes.

That does NOT IMHO make it suitable for outside use in constant rain for hours on end.

IMHO outside stuff should be IP65 or greater.

Does anyone know of a IP65 rated PIR floodlight?

 

[Doc Hudson]

Does anyone know of a IP65 rated PIR floodlight?

What sort are you looking for?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TCGB70H.html

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GLSFW26.html

Doc H.

 

[binky]

You don't mean their rEterna range do you Binks?

yep, but isue isn't limited to Eterna

 

[binky]

Is it okay to possibly reduce the manufacturers stated IP rating and would they still warranty the product if you drill it? We usually end up with insect problems when external enclosures aren't sealed, especially ants.  

I'm talking 1mm hole, not something you can drive a truck through

 

[Apache]

What sort are you looking for?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TCGB70H.html

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GLSFW26.html

Doc H.

Thanks Doc

Ideally looking for one with a built in PIR but can always wire it with an external one.

Have one mounted on my shed and they don't last. I'd guess I have got through 10 in 5 years. It's a bit of a wind trap so rain not so bad but when the wind drives the rain the PIR fills with water. I have tried cheap crap from B&Q to branded ones costing me £50+ and they all go on and do it eventually. Every time, but one they have failed at the PIR. I have even tried extra silicone sealant on the connections.

 

[batty]

The Led ones with PIR's seem to have a good IP rating never tried them though.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Floodlight-Motion-Equivalent-Halogen-Security/dp/B007IUBN9M