what advise can i give my customer

[codamol]

Going to price up for a cu change tomorrow, having a chat with customer and it cropped up that he had work done by non part p registered spark( in his second year at college).

Customer has told me that there has been quite some work done by this spark, but when it came to the cu change he said that he didnt know what to do with it, so customer told him to leave.( apparently a friend's relative) Customer says he wants things safe and legal , has his parents living with him so extra safe is implied.

So, the work has been done but obviously not signed off, i have told the customer that i will not sign off anyone else's work at all, and he seems ok with that.

My questions-

1)What can i advise the customer with regard to the work already done?

2)Should i help him liase with LABC and see if they would be open to accepting a PIR for all the work done.

I will of course be testing all circuits before the cu change so i wouldn't be connecting anything that had potential dangers to my work.

I have read another thread similar, http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/electrician-talk/13544-how-do-you-get-around.html where the spark had died before the certs were issued, the part about the three signed EIC just seems a work around and not sure who would sign the design and instal sections to be honest (customer or student). I realise i would only be signing off on the test and comission but it is giving me pause for thought. Which usually stops me doing things, just in case.

So thanks in advance for advice, just want to help this guy out without opening a)can of worms or b)myself to legal action.

 

[ianmacd]

1) Suggest a PIR of the additions (and possibly the entire installation)

2) They will need an application for a Regularisation Certificate (Basically a retrospective building complaince cert).

You should only issue an EIC for the work you have done (i.e. the CU change).

 

[Barx]

As above, recommend a PIR on the full install and issue a eic for board change.

 

[NozSpark]

Or just get on with the job and be very careful with the wording on your EIC.

 

[codamol]

Thanks guys.

Im going to print the page about Regularisation Certificates from building control and take those with me, a PIR should cover some of the points on that page i would have thought. Although "However, this can only be done if you are willing to uncover the work to the extend we need to inspect it." from their page translates to me as "take the plaster off the wall so we can see where things are".Hope i don't get shot as the messenger ;D

I would only be signing off my EIC for the board change, no fear there. Ill see what he says tomorrow.

 

[Adrian]

I would say dont get involved do the consumer unit change and test as normal

 

[M107]

Same as Noz...I go with the following in such situations.

word the EIC extent of works covered section along the lines of "consumer unit change only including testing & inspection of all existing circuits"

word in the comments on existing installation section "evidence of recent electrical works having being undertaken by other persons"

 

[WarrenG]

You could carry out a PIR + Board change, - i.e. carry out a PIR first (and charge extra of course) so the customer knows where he currently stands it terms of the whole installation including any remedial works not compliant. And then carry out your board change and issue your EIC for the board change only.

The bottom line is, you, I or any other spark can walk into a property tomorrow knowing that recent work has been carried out and not notified. We also know there are no records. In fact I always make a note on my PIR's to state 'No documentation available for existing installation' to make it quite clear.

Providing your work is correct and your board change is right then you have no worries. On the other hand if you carry out a PIR and find lots of codes, then maybe the customer might think twice not to use a non-registered spark again in the future.

I would definately be finding codes.......after all thats what I'm trained and registered for!

 

[steptoe]

common dodge this,

get some anybody to do all your work for you,

then get someone registered to change the CU and he has to sign off all the work.

WRONG,

just make very plain and simple on the extent box that it is a CU change only,

actually use those words, " CONSUMER UNIT CHANGE ONLY"

and in the limitations box,

" recent works carried out by others omitted from tests"

something like that should work,

perhaps some other more esteemed members may be able to add to this.

 

[codamol]

Grrr bigish post got rejected twice OMG coz of something, jist of it was i agree with all posted by you guys, never sign others work off.

Test before CU change to avoid nightmare on change day.

Rejected job this morning(sat) to complete second fit on someone elses work, guy wanted it doing by sunday and i am busy , weekend with family >almost anything.

Anyway i will be using those lines on my EIC about CU change ONLY and "evidence of recent electrical works having being undertaken by other persons" and maybe fit "No documentation available for existing installation" in somewhere too, depends how it goes.

 

[batty]

Grrr bigish post got rejected twice OMG coz of something, jist of it was i agree with all posted by you guys, never sign others work off.Test before CU change to avoid nightmare on change day.

Rejected job this morning(sat) to complete second fit on someone elses work, guy wanted it doing by sunday and i am busy , weekend with family >almost anything.

Anyway i will be using those lines on my EIC about CU change ONLY and "evidence of recent electrical works having being undertaken by other persons" and maybe fit "No documentation available for existing installation" in somewhere too, depends how it goes.

Can't really understand all this shorthand but if you do a cu change the minimum documentation you will need to provide is an EIC with loop readings for all circuits as you have changed protective devices this includes any work done by other sparks.

 

[davetheglitz]

I look at it like this:-

You are signing off that existing circuits are not compromised by your CU change.

Ideally check before the CU change.

Always check you've connected all your cpc's by monitoring at some remote point. On rings - if no continuity downgrade to 20A.

Cover your a**e and be happy that you've improved the situation.

However - always ensure your earthing and bonding is OK - and remember the adiabatic equation can get you out of trouble!

Use limitations to limit your liability if things go wrong at a later date. If you can't install bonding within 0.6m of entry say what you have done and leave notes at the CU and on the cert.

You need to make a living and improve installations as far as is practical.

Hope this helps!

 

[ianmacd]

If LABC want to know the route of cables, then a cable tracer could be used and leaving the plaster in place.