What do you do?

[ADS]

Hi,

I fitted a new dual RCD board in a customers house a couple of weeks ago.

All circuits tested fine - no problems whatsoever.

I've since had a phone call telling me that sometimes when she switches on her immersion heater, the RCD on that side of the board trips.

I told her that this could, on occasion, happen and that if it became a frequent thing, to get back in touch.........well, she has.

My first thought is to now move the 'immersion' circuit to it's own RCBO, so it is not tripping other circuits, (e.g. lighting), when this happens.

But what do I do if this becomes a nuicance for the customer and keeps tripping the RCBO every other time she puts her heating on?

It's not like a kettle, where I can tell her to get a new one - I can hardly insist she gets a new heating system.

Can I move it onto a non-RCD protected MCB? - if not, what the hell do we do?

 

[NozSpark]

Do you not think that the immersion element might be faulty and should be at least tested with a view to replacing it??

 

[ProDave]

well if the immersion heater IS faulty (have you IR tested it?) then you CAN advise the customer to get a new element fitted.

I had a customer after I fitted a new CU, phoned to say every time his wife plugs her iron in, the RCD trips, so could I come and fit one non RCD protected socket. I said no, buy a new iron.

 

[ADS]

Do you not think that the immersion element might be faulty and should be at least tested with a view to replacing it??

Well, not necessarily faulty, as opposed to allowing some earth leakage...... it doesn't take much, remember.

Other sparks always go on about certain devices being prone to earth leakages even when in good condition - it's just something that hasn't caused me a problem before.

Don't forget, if I suggest anything is wrong with the heating, I'm going to get the..."Well it worked fine before you changed the board" line.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 18:55 ---------- Previous post was made at 18:52 ----------

OK, to keep this short - I know you could come up with lots of suggestions for the fault, along with lots of different solutions, but lets say the customer doesn't want to pay out for more work.

What can I do, as the spark who fitted the now-tripping, new board?

 

[NozSpark]

If they won't pay then you do nothing.

Just because it "worked" before you changed the CU doesn't mean that it was safe before

If an immersion element is leaking a bit then it is faulty!

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Immersion heater should have 0 leakage. If its tripping a 30ma Rcd then its faulty. It needs to have an IR test done.

 

[ProDave]

If the customer does not want to pay to have the immersion heater checked / replaced, then they are going to have to get used to keep resetting the RCD, and dealing with all the stuff that loses it's power (pc for instance) when the RCD trips.

This should really be in the bit where you warn your customers, that fitting an RCD often shows up existing faults with things, and the remedial repairs needed are extra on top of the cost of the CU change.

It's not a difficult job. If the tank is in good condition and you can get at the heater, you should be able to drain the tank, change the heater and re fill in an hour. and the heaters are not that expensive.

P.S fred drift I know, but I was talking to a customer who called an electrician to a hot water problem. The electrician determined it needed a new immersion heater. He proceeded to unscrew the old one, where upon water flooded out. "oh I didn't expect that to happen"

 

[ADS]

OK, thanks chaps.

I got the job through a gas fitter/plumber anyway, (he's fitting a new shower), so I'll inform him of the situation and see what he wants to do about it.

I'll just stick it on an RCBO for now, so it's not causing the added inconvenience of tripping other circuits when it does go.

Cheers.

 

[Sharpend]

Why bother, just disconnect until the customer wants to pay for new element.

 

[m4tty]

Why bother, just disconnect the earth until the customer wants to pay for new element.

Tut tut :slap

 

[Sharpend]

You sly dog........ Sorry feline!!

 

[NozSpark]

:shakehead if it trips a RCD then it'll still trip a RCBO

Before you do anything you need to test the element

 

[Doc Hudson]

As industry guidance on the effects of shock currents suggest that 5mA - 10mA can give a painful sensation and throw you off. 10mA - 15mA can cause muscular contraction & can't let go. 20mA - 30mA can give impaired breathing. 50mA and above can be fatal. I would not consider it good to have immersion heaters that are 'naturally leaky' to earth and thus leaving currents up to 30mA on the metal pipework and water system of a property. Brian Scaddans books normally have a good section on electric shock current levels. If you say you have tested your circuit cables and I presume the RCD operating times and trip currents. Then I would think you should have confidence in the equipment you have installed. As such the customer needs their immersion heater testing. Is the immersion heater switch a simple Double Pole device, or time clock, or an economy 7 controller with 1 hour boost? Could the control device or the flex to the element be faulty? I think this is just a matter of basic fault finding logic.

Doc H.

 

[Andy™]

just remove the earth & RCD and it will be fine.

 

[ProDave]

[quote name='Andy

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

That all depends if there's plastic pipes connected to the cylinder ut the kettle on opcorn

 

[sellers]

Why not just explain there is a faulty element that needs replacing? Seems a simple solution?

 

[Evans Electric]

ADS... faulty immersions can be lethal ...the RCD is doing it's job . I've known faulty heaters on rewirable fuses raise the potential on the pipework and people getting shocks from metal kitchen sinktops .

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi,I fitted a new dual RCD board in a customers house a couple of weeks ago.

All circuits tested fine - no problems whatsoever.

I've since had a phone call telling me that sometimes when she switches on her immersion heater, the RCD on that side of the board trips.

I told her that this could, on occasion, happen and that if it became a frequent thing, to get back in touch.........well, she has.

My first thought is to now move the 'immersion' circuit to it's own RCBO, so it is not tripping other circuits, (e.g. lighting), when this happens.

But what do I do if this becomes a nuicance for the customer and keeps tripping the RCBO every other time she puts her heating on?

It's not like a kettle, where I can tell her to get a new one - I can hardly insist she gets a new heating system.

Can I move it onto a non-RCD protected MCB? - if not, what the hell do we do?

1/ Fix the fault so the RCD don't trip...

2/ If you cant do [1] call an electrician who can...

3/ If need to do [2] this may help....

/directory-uk-qualified-electricians-electrical-contractors-find-your-local-electrician/2370-find-your-local-electrician-here-list-uk-qualified-electricians.html

Guinness

 

[ADS]

Agreed - I'm not happy about it either but I didn't want to seem like I was passing the blame or fishing for more work.

Like I said in my previous post, I'll contact the gas fitter who put me on to the job and explain the situation to him - that way, he can back me up in explaining to the customer the best solution and the reasons behind it.

Thanks again.