What do you do?

[batty]

ADS... faulty immersions can be lethal ...the RCD is doing it's job . I've known faulty heaters on rewirable fuses raise the potential on the pipework and people getting shocks from metal kitchen sinktops .

On farms they have been known to make cattle into burgers.

 

[ADS]

1/ Fix the fault so the RCD don't trip...2/ If you cant do [1] call an electrician who can...

3/ If need to do [2] this may help....

/directory-uk-qualified-electricians-electrical-contractors-find-your-local-electrician/2370-find-your-local-electrician-here-list-uk-qualified-electricians.html

Guinness

This thread was going well until one of the t*****s has to put his oar in.

When tested, there wasn't a fault - even 'functional',,,,,,i.e. I got her to switch the immersion on whilst I was there with no tripping.

The fault has started since!

So it's not my responsibilty to do 1/ - as for 2/ and 3/, Specs, GROW UP!

If you don't get 'told off' for this one then I was right all along, this forum is a total farce.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Agreed - I'm not happy about it either but I didn't want to seem like I was passing the blame or fishing for more work.Like I said in my previous post, I'll contact the gas fitter who put me on to the job and explain the situation to him - that way, he can back me up in explaining to the customer the best solution and the reasons behind it.

Thanks again.

Did you test your cables while the immersion was switched OFF??

I am betting you probably did?

so could have missed a knackerd element!!! :C

OR..

being quite realistic...

It could have failed AFTER you fitted your RCD!

 

[ADS]

Did you test your cables while the immersion was switched OFF??I am betting you probably did?

so could have missed a knackerd element!!! :C

OR..

being quite realistic...

It could have failed AFTER you fitted your RCD!

Yes........just like I tested the cables with the cooker switched off, the shower disconnected and the kettle unplugged - we're responsible for fixed wiring, not appliances.

It may have been faulty all along, but, as I said earlier, it's intermittent tripping.

I don't know why I'm replying to you, anyway, your answers are far from constructive.

 

[batty]

I find it hard to believe you didn't test it connected especially if you are using a duel RCD board. I would get back test it and if its faulty get them to replace it, its the only way its going to be solved. When I do board changes I always test L & N to earth that way if something is faulty you won't get a call back.

 

[ADS]

I find it hard to believe you didn't test it connected especially if you are using a duel RCD board. I would get back test it and if its faulty get them to replace it, its the only way its going to be solved. When I do board changes I always test L & N to earth that way if something is faulty you won't get a call back.

I did............but not the cooker, washing machine, shower, toaster, dryer, kettle, iron, hair dryer, curling tongs.....or immersion..........nor anything else that isn't part of the fixed wiring!!

They are actually all loads, you see - and IR testing is done with all loads removed.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I don't know why I'm replying to you, anyway, your answers are far from constructive.

Because you love me and my superior electrical wisdom....

And / Or the short simplicity of my answer that is correct in every statement.....

As the urban MYTH of RCD nuisance tripping... {on a good proven & tested RCD}

is actually..

there is a fault..

find it!!!

Anyway..

I thought you HATED this forum and wanted to leave and have all of your posts removed????

Perhaps..

just on some long shot...

Your thread here is actually and admission that

IT is actually a ruddy good place..

that you cannot run from!!!

 

[batty]

Well ADS in that case I am surprised you don't get more call backs.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

If you don't get 'told off' for this one then I was right all along, this forum is a total farce.

So if you think its a total farce..

why are you here?????

I am happy for the NEW admins to admonish me as appropriate to their jurisdiction! :|

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 01:04 ---------- Previous post was made at 01:01 ----------

I did............but not the cooker, washing machine, shower, toaster, dryer, kettle, iron, hair dryer, curling tongs.....or immersion..........nor anything else that isn't part of the fixed wiring!!They are actually all loads, you see - and IR testing is done with all loads removed.

So why are you scared to tell the customer their immersion is knackerd...???

It's not like a kettle, where I can tell her to get a new one - I can hardly insist she gets a new heating system.

and you want to pass the buck to the plumber ???

 

[ADS]

Well ADS in that case I am surprised you don't get more call backs.

So you leave everything I listed above, along with TV, computers, phone charges, alarm panels etc etc plugged in to do your IR tests............just to be certain one of those items won't cause the RCD to trip.

You see, I tell them to go around and remove all loads, because otherwise one day you'll get stung big time.

Might not be your fault, purely coincidence, but you try telling the customer that the reason their 50 inch Plasma isn't working anymore has nothing to do with the 500 volts you applied to the circuit without unplugging it.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 01:11 ---------- Previous post was made at 01:07 ----------

Specs, you'll be happy to know you have now joined canoeboy.......I'm fed up of reading your drivel.

 

[steptoe]

mmmmmm

you do know the difference between a portable appliance and a fixed load I assume,?

although for some silly reason Im starting to doubt myself on that one........

 

[Jono Pashley]

So you leave everything I listed above, along with TV, computers, phone charges, alarm panels etc etc plugged in to do your IR tests............just to be certain one of those items won't cause the RCD to trip.You see, I tell them to go around and remove all loads, because otherwise one day you'll get stung big time.

Might not be your fault, purely coincidence, but you try telling the customer that the reason their 50 inch Plasma isn't working anymore has nothing to do with the 500 volts you applied to the circuit without unplugging it.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 01:11 ---------- Previous post was made at 01:07 ----------

Specs, you'll be happy to know you have now joined canoeboy.......I'm fed up of reading your drivel.

you shouldnt blow anything up with L&N connected and tested to earth. Always best to start at the lowest IR voltage your meter does and work up however.

 

[ADS]

mmmmmmyou do know the difference between a portable appliance and a fixed load I assume,?

although for some silly reason Im starting to doubt myself on that one........

I do, Steps, and neither are part of the 'fixed wiring'.

'Loads' of any description are just that, 'loads'......they can be altered, replaced etc etc,

For example, you could call a combi boiler connected to an FCU a fixed load - but I wouldn't IR test one as part of the fixed wiring.

And if the same boiler was connected to a 13A plug instead - does it suddenly become a portable appliance?

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:14 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:12 ----------

you shouldnt blow anything up with L&N connected and tested to earth. Always best to start at the lowest IR voltage your meter does and work up however.

Yes, you know that, I know that, most of this forum knows that - but to the customer with the knackered 50 inch plasma.......you were the last one fiddling with their electric - so I get them to unplug everything.

 

[Sidewinder]

ADS,

With regard to fixed loads, fixed wiring etc.

As far as an immersion goes, yes it is a load, however, it is fixed.

Thus there is a cross over point, it could be a grey area, if may not be it depends on your outlook.

IMHO an immersion circuit should initially be tested with its isolator off, to prove the fixed wiring in the install.

However, due to the nature of the current consuming device being effectively integrated into the structure of the building services, the circuit should then be tested to include the IH, or the IH tested independently to confirm its suitability.

That way, you avoid the situation it seems you have got yourself into?

If you had done the additional test, which realistically would not have taken you that long initially, then surely you could have avoided this situation?

 

[kme]

Yes mate - I also get the customer to unplug things - EXCEPT they don`t tend to "unplug" their immersion.

So I test the damn thing; for 2 reasons.

1. It IS a fixed load - ergo part of the install. ( If you ever have to do IR tests on a reasonably sized commercial, you`d be there a week getting everything "unplugged" ). So I test it, because I`m wiring it up as a dedicated circuit - so 'I need to check whats on the end of it.

2. Simply that I don`t want the ballache oh customers complaining the board trips, and innumerable callouts. They`re STILL going to blame you, `cos you were "last man in"! Further, it creates mistrust in the customers` mind - last thing you want, as a business.

If you`re good at what you do, they`ll tell someone.

If you`re not, they`ll tell everyone.

Don`t bother with the gas fitter - just change the immersion; or tell them it needs to be changed - or tell the gas fitter you need it changed.........it really doesn`t matter.

If they won`t? - disconnect it. Board will stop tripping then.

Trying to circumvent an RCD / RCBo trip fault is akin to replacing a fuse with tinfoil, or a 6" nail - you`ll make it work again - but at what cost?

Just as an aside - speaking as one of the new management team - I do not believe SL was out of order in his comments. I would suggest he said what a few were thinking - and you took offence, and started the swearing stuff again.

Cool down, and look at it from an outside perspective - I don`t know you; haven`t met you, and all I know of you is what I see you post - and some of the comments in this thread make me concerned, as I`ve said above.

If you don`t WANT different opinions on a subject mate - don`t ask the questions.

Sorry if that isn`t the answer you wanted - but it IS my honest opinion.

KME

 

[revjames]

Cant believe this is still on going

You install, test and comission new board, get called back because of a trip, find the fault, tell customer whats wrong, disconnect faulty element and wait for them to get a plumber to change it (or do it yourself if competent) then reconnect it again.

You are shooting yourself in the foot posting like this.

 

[batty]

ADS I generally test at 250 volts on board changes and test L&N to earth and touch wood generally find anything faulty and faulty wiring if that is faulty. I can't really see why you would need to test at 500 volts anyway on a board change after all the wiring is already installed and working. New installs are different as you know what you have installed and know were everything is sockets ETC. I think you are taking a big risk asking customers to disconnect everything something will always get forgotten.

 

[wicksy]

I just want to add something a little off the subject....................I posted on here about fixed loads and loads that were via a plug a few weeks back and i got told to look at the Part P general guidance section H............which i still dispute.

Where do we draw the line between Part P and PAT?

Back to the OP i would do as others have said and find the fault which it sounds like you have and inform them of your findings.

Hope this helps

:consoling

 

[ADS]

You are shooting yourself in the foot posting like this.

Posting like what?????

I started with:

Hi,I fitted a new dual RCD board in a customers house a couple of weeks ago.

All circuits tested fine - no problems whatsoever.

I've since had a phone call telling me that sometimes when she switches on her immersion heater, the RCD on that side of the board trips.

I told her that this could, on occasion, happen and that if it became a frequent thing, to get back in touch.........well, she has.

My first thought is to now move the 'immersion' circuit to it's own RCBO, so it is not tripping other circuits, (e.g. lighting), when this happens.

But what do I do if this becomes a nuicance for the customer and keeps tripping the RCBO every other time she puts her heating on?

It's not like a kettle, where I can tell her to get a new one - I can hardly insist she gets a new heating system.

Can I move it onto a non-RCD protected MCB? - if not, what the hell do we do?

After a few replies, I said:

OK, to keep this short - I know you could come up with lots of suggestions for the fault, along with lots of different solutions, but lets say the customer doesn't want to pay out for more work.What can I do, as the spark who fitted the now-tripping, new board?

After a couple more replies, I then said:

OK, thanks chaps.I got the job through a gas fitter/plumber anyway, (he's fitting a new shower), so I'll inform him of the situation and see what he wants to do about it.

I'll just stick it on an RCBO for now, so it's not causing the added inconvenience of tripping other circuits when it does go.

Cheers.

And that should have been the end of the thread!!

But then I get these helpfull (not) replies from the usual suspects - without any comment from the so called moderators:

[quote name='Andy

 

[batty]

All I will say I don't have any unhappy customers at the present time do you?