13A sockets for EVs

[Murdoch]

Well, building regulations require compliance with BS7671.
Building regulations are law.
Thus compliance with 7671 is required by all.
Insurance companies are picking up on this.
More insurance policies require evidence of compliance with 7671 as time goes on.
JPEL/64 cannot condone breaking the law, so 7671 must consider that "people" will follow the law.

Hum ............ a misplaced judgement if there ever was one.

We all know this isn't the case

And if building regulations were the law and the law applied why have there been so few prosecutions regarding failure to comply with Part P?

 

[Murdoch]

And just to make my point this is an extract taken from a Schneider information email received today:


So they are advocating use of a domestic socket is permissible

 

[Sidewinder]

And just to make my point this is an extract taken from a Schneider information email received today:

View attachment 13736
So they are advocating use of a domestic socket is permissible

A suitable domestic socket is suitable.
Just not all sockets are, fact, and the product standard reflects this.

 

[Sidewinder]

Hum ............ a misplaced judgement if there ever was one.

We all know this isn't the case

And if building regulations were the law and the law applied why have there been so few prosecutions regarding failure to comply with Part P?

JPEL/64 has no choice but to take the opinion that the law will be followed.
Same as every similar organisation.
If you want more prosecutions speak with your MP and lobby them for tougher controls.

 

[Andy™]

its one of those brilliantly stupid regs we have. a 13a socket used for EV charging needs to be designed for it.

for the general public, there's an expectation that something with a 13a plug can be plugged into a 13a socket, and rightly so. if simply using something at its rated load is going to fail, then the root cause of this needs to be addressed, not then making a reg requring some 'special' 13a sockets that can actually handle the full rated current

 

[binky]

its one of those brilliantly stupid regs we have. a 13a socket used for EV charging needs to be designed for it.

for the general public, there's an expectation that something with a 13a plug can be plugged into a 13a socket, and rightly so. if simply using something at its rated load is going to fail, then the root cause of this needs to be addressed, not then making a reg requring some 'special' 13a sockets that can actually handle the full rated current

says something about build quality of parts from China. Bet one of these wouldn't melt!

 

[Murdoch]

A suitable domestic socket is suitable.
Just not all sockets are, fact, and the product standard reflects this.

The Schneider document I clipped above makes no mention of a suitable socket.

 

[NozSpark]

This is the only outdoor socket that I know of that is ”compliant” with 722 for supplies for EV charging,,,, however it’s fitted with an AC type RCBO so isn’t compliant

 

[Sidewinder]

Hager, available here:
https://www.tradesparky.com/wiring-...-outlets/hager-wxpss81ev-swd-socket-dp-ev-13a

 

[Gian]

And given how many outlets are selling EV points direct to Joe Public, who have probably never heard of BS7671 when will this crass stupidity end?

There's absolutely no point in those in their ivory tower believing that all sparks follow BS 7671, so please don't tell me that they think Joe Public does?

This isn't targeted at you @Sidewinder BUT its written for others to view and fingers crossed consider.

Out of touch and distant

We have recently seen electricians fitting ev chargers and not only have they videoed there work but fitted incorrectly. So yes your right it's not only diyers it's qualified electricians. If you want to stop sales to public then let's stop selling brake pads and steering components to anyone who is not qualified. Ok let's promote safety first

 

[Murdoch]

. If you want to stop sales to public then let's stop selling brake pads and steering components to anyone who is not qualified. Ok let's promote safety first

That is completely different.

3rd party pads and brakes have to fit the vehicle they are designed for - with EV's there is no standard they are made too, and then there are different earthing systems to contend with

 

[Murdoch]

Hager, available here:
https://www.tradesparky.com/wiring-...-outlets/hager-wxpss81ev-swd-socket-dp-ev-13a

So 2 suggestions of EV sockets, 1 of which isn't suitable.

Which rather makes my point.

I think the onus should be put on the EV manufacturers to clearly state the requirements for 13A sockets in their literature. Because at the moment countless thousands of EV's are being charged using sub standard 13A sockets - and how long before a home goes up in flames and kills the inhabitants ...............

 

[PaulieN]

It's really quite laughable, so it turns out our 13A sockets have never been up to being used at 13A beyond a 3 minute kettle boil. But it gets even worse, as no EV chargers with 13A plugs fitted even pull 13A, they top out at 10A, so some sockets aren't even up to 10A continuous!

But... even with a beefed up quality, or EV specific socket, you're still going to get problems as often the cause of failure isn't the socket at all. I've had direct experience of a brand new quality socket starting to burn up when using my last EV's portable charger and the cause was the live pin overheating in its plug. This being due to a high resistance joint at a rivet in the plugs fuse holder mount.

 

[Geoff1946]

It appears to me that the quality and also load capability of 13 amp accessories has degraded over the last half century.
I don't have access to BSs to check, but surely they should cover electrical characteristics as well as dimensional stuff(?). Compliance with even the latter seems questionable on a lot of imported plugs.
Does any organisation take responsibility for checking compliance ? Is it now just another useless CE mark?
Perhaps an update of BS1363 to require compliance testing, and a programme to enforce standards would do more for electrical home safety than all the continual tinkering with wiring regulations.

 

[Andy™]

Perhaps an update of BS1363 to require compliance testing, and a programme to enforce standards would do more for electrical home safety than all the continual tinkering with wiring regulations.

there's more profit to be made out of selling new versiosn of BS7671 to the masses than a few copies of BS163 to the manufacturers

 

[Murdoch]

So I've just been to see the latest caller. They have ruined 2 x 13A sockets and 1 x 10A extension lead.

Surely the manufacturers of the EV's need to take some responsibility for adding more information in their handbooks and literature

Madness.

 

[Murdoch]

Is it now just another useless CE mark?

I always think that CE stands for Chinese excrement these days

 

[PaulieN]

So I've just been to see the latest caller. They have ruined 2 x 13A sockets and 1 x 10A extension lead.

Surely the manufacturers of the EV's need to take some responsibility for adding more information in their handbooks and literature

Madness.

If the issue is the cheap, crappy, plug on the charger overheating, (as it often is) the issue will keep happening. Do you check and change out the plugs as well?

 

[Murdoch]

So I've been looking around for stock and prices for the Hager unit ..........

Seemingly no stock and Hager are quoting 3 months lead time

Any other suggestions team?

 

[johnb2713]

If the issue is the cheap, crappy, plug on the charger overheating, (as it often is) the issue will keep happening. Do you check and change out the plugs as well?

The problem with that is a) the plugs are usually moulded on and b) they have a temperature sensor moulded into them.