2391-10

[Theorysparky]

Sorry but the 2391-10 is needed. If you aint got it you aren't (on paper or in a court of law) competent to Inspect, test & certificate installations.Yes you do need it for domestic installations!!! The amount of times I've gone in to an installation and read previous EIC's & Periodic reports thats aren't worth the use as toilet paper is endless. So called competent people can't write them.

When the new rules for QS comes out I hope it states must have the city & guilds 2391, 17th edition and NVQ3 in domestic installation.

The 2391 sorts the men from the boys.

Rubbish !!!!!

Sitting in a classroom,,bit of testing, 2.5 hour exam dont make you competant !!!!!!!!!

Sorts the men out from the boys really ????????

read this thread mate

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/inspection-testing/14962-failed-d-e-i-p-i-r-single-dwelling.html

NIC registered spark with 2391 leave that with you............

 

[Electricalserv]

Rubbish !!!!!

Sitting in a classroom,,bit of testing, 2.5 hour exam dont make you competant !!!!!!!!!

Sorts the men out from the boys really ????????

read this thread mate

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/inspection-testing/14962-failed-d-e-i-p-i-r-single-dwelling.html

NIC registered spark with 2391 leave that with you............

What on that thread makes that guy who done the PIR not competent?. He's ripped the guy off and thats about it. All of his codes could be correct because we haven't seen the installation or the defects within it. All he has done is robbed the customer. That doesn't make him un-competent. Where does it say he's 2391 anyway?

Listen if you aint got the 2391-10 you haven't proved your competency in Inspection, Testing and Certification and if you aint got it your not fully qualified.

Peolpe without it mock it because they don't have it. Its the hardest exam for a reason lads 60% fail rate. Because its the theory behind the saftey of all installations!

 

[Megaohm7]

Competency is holding the correct qualification in that field as you need to show competence in passing the exams and experience on the tools of which you pick up over time. Since I went self employed I've found it a huge learning experience and I've found this forum extremely helpful in that. I feel that there are too many changes occurring in this industry with the regs as you just get used to them and then some changes are thrown in to keep you on your toes and I find some of it confusing TBH. Hence some of my questions in the past. I'm sure I'm not the only one on here that feels like this.

 

[Electricalserv]

Competency is holding the correct qualification in that field as you need to show competence in passing the exams and experience on the tools of which you pick up over time. Since I went self employed I've found it a huge learning experience and I've found this forum extremely helpful in that. I feel that there are too many changes occurring in this industry with the regs as you just get used to them and then some changes are thrown in to keep you on your toes and I find some of it confusing TBH. Hence some of my questions in the past. I'm sure I'm not the only one on here that feels like this.

How did you come into the industry? How many years experience do you have? What qualifications do you have?

 

[Theorysparky]

That doesn't make him un-competent. Where does it say he's 2391 anyway?Listen if you aint got the 2391-10 you haven't proved your competency in Inspection' date=' Testing and Certification and if you aint got it your not fully qualified.

Peolpe without it mock it because they don't have it. Its the hardest exam for a reason lads 60% fail rate. Because its the theory behind the saftey of all installations![/quote']

Firstly he is using NIC cert labled Domestic PIR........which is used by members who have been assessed by NIC he needs 2391 for that...

having a piece of paper doesn not make you competent....

using your logic a 5DW with 17th and 2391 passed while on the course makes him competent ???????? er nope

you do not need 2391 to do a PIR

GN3 1.2 does not state you need 2391

"The inspector carrying out the inspection and testing of any electrical installation must,as appropriate to his or her function,have a sound knowledge and experience relevant to the nature of the installation being inspected and tested,and to the technical standards.The inspector must also be fully versed in the inspection and testing procedures andemploy suitable testing equipment during the inspection and testing process"

no mention of 2391

Furthermore.....

if i do domestic work day in day out then i can class myself as having sound knowledge and experience

therefore i consider myself to be competent without 2391 !!!!!!!!!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:20 ----------

Competency is holding the correct qualification in that field as you need to show competence in passing the exams and experience on the tools of which you pick up over time. Since I went self employed I've found it a huge learning experience and I've found this forum extremely helpful in that. I feel that there are too many changes occurring in this industry with the regs as you just get used to them and then some changes are thrown in to keep you on your toes and I find some of it confusing TBH. Hence some of my questions in the past. I'm sure I'm not the only one on here that feels like this.

what publication says that ??????

 

[Electricalserv]

Firstly he is using NIC cert labled Domestic PIR........which is used by members who have been assessed by NIC he needs 2391 for that...having a piece of paper doesn not make you competent....

using your logic a 5DW with 17th and 2391 passed while on the course makes him competent ???????? er nope

you do not need 2391 to do a PIR

GN3 1.2 does not state you need 2391

"The inspector carrying out the inspection and testing of any electrical installation must,as appropriate to his or her function,have a sound knowledge and experience relevant to the nature of the installation being inspected and tested,and to the technical standards.The inspector must also be fully versed in the inspection and testing procedures andemploy suitable testing equipment during the inspection and testing process"

no mention of 2391

Furthermore.....

if i do domestic work day in day out then i can class myself as having sound knowledge and experience

therefore i consider myself to be competent without 2391 !!!!!!!!!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:20 ----------

what publication says that ??????

Just because he is useing a NICEIC PIR form doesn't make him 2391 qualified at all!!!!

You aren't competent in Inspection and testing unless you have the 2391-10 I'm afraid....

Tell that to a judge....2391-10 will cover your backside. Napit want the 2391-10 with 12months or you are out!!!

 

[Andy™]

Listen if you aint got the 2391-10 you haven't proved your competency in Inspection, Testing and Certification and if you aint got it your not fully qualified.

bull****.

 

[Zeespark]

Elec, there was a case in Scotland recently where the judge didnt even recognise BS7671:2008, how many would be asking to see 2391 qualifications?

AndyGuinness

 

[Electricalserv]

[quote name='Andy

 

[Electricalserv]

Elec, there was a case in Scotland recently where the judge didnt even recognise BS7671:2008, how many would be asking to see 2391 qualifications?AndyGuinness

BS7671 is a guide its non statutory. But in a court of law this along with the EAWR1989 is the book inwhich you would refer to, to cover your backside. Scotland is completely different Part P doesn't apply up there and I don't think they have the 2391 either.

Believe me if you signed a installation of safe and it later burnt down or killed someone then the 2391-10 would go a long way in proving your competence.

 

[Megaohm7]

Firstly he is using NIC cert labled Domestic PIR........which is used by members who have been assessed by NIC he needs 2391 for that...having a piece of paper doesn not make you competent....

using your logic a 5DW with 17th and 2391 passed while on the course makes him competent ???????? er nope

you do not need 2391 to do a PIR

GN3 1.2 does not state you need 2391

"The inspector carrying out the inspection and testing of any electrical installation must,as appropriate to his or her function,have a sound knowledge and experience relevant to the nature of the installation being inspected and tested,and to the technical standards.The inspector must also be fully versed in the inspection and testing procedures andemploy suitable testing equipment during the inspection and testing process"

no mention of 2391

Furthermore.....

if i do domestic work day in day out then i can class myself as having sound knowledge and experience

therefore i consider myself to be competent without 2391 !!!!!!!!!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:20 ----------

what publication says that ??????

Not a publication as such mate just a point made by me. It's on the same basis that you have to be competent to pass a driving test. The rest of your time is gaining experience.

 

[Zeespark]

I haven't heard of a case yet where the judge has asked about a 2391 qualification, they normally use independent expert witnesses (I could be wrong though)

AndyGuinness

 

[Electricalserv]

Says Who ?You ? Me? NIC ? IET ?

Where did you do your 5 day course ? :slap

I know NAPIT OUR scheme provider want it within 12 months. Its a fact. If you haven't done it you aren't a proven competent Inspector. Most firms won't look at a test engineer without a 2391 qualification. Its just fact.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:40 ----------

I haven't heard of a case yet where the judge has asked about a 2391 qualification, they normally use independent expert witnesses (I could be wrong though)AndyGuinness

No they would look at your background. Qualifications etc etc

 

[Megaohm7]

How did you come into the industry? How many years experience do you have? What qualifications do you have?

Whats the relevance in your questions?

 

[Theorysparky]

Mega

far enuff

but having 2391 doesnt make you competent straight away....

 

[Electricalserv]

Whats the relevance in your questions?

You seem to be struggling with the regs when hardly any have changed in regards to domestic commercial and industrial with the new ammendment!

 

[Theorysparky]

.Believe me if you signed a installation of safe and it later burnt down or killed someone then the 2391-10 would go a long way in proving your competence.

if i signed a cert to say it was safe then it wouldnt matter if i had 2391 or not

A PIR is a check of an installation at that time

2 or 3 weeks later an alteration by the home owner makes it invalid......

Its like an MOT 3 weeks later it could fail.

 

[Electricalserv]

Ermm NAPITI know a few full scope boys who have been there for years and not done the 2391....

12 months may be what they say but in reality they are only interested in money and that 12 months can be stretched a loooooong way

Whats a test engineer got to do with a 2391 ? Is that a test engineer in aeronautics or sound ?

You never told me which 5 day course you did either - hey ho :slap

There are many facts in life some true and some untrue, my missus tells me facts all the time, she may think her facts are right and on the whole i let her believe this.....

I now know for a fact you don't have the 2391.

How about giving me your NAPIT membership number and il find out what quals you have. You can have my number and ask for mine. That way we both know we aint 5dw's or control panel builders.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:49 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:48 ----------

if i signed a cert to say it was safe then it wouldnt matter if i had 2391 or notA PIR is a check of an installation at that time

2 or 3 weeks later an alteration by the home owner makes it invalid......

Its like an MOT 3 weeks later it could fail.

But if you where the last person who signed a document for that installation it would be you in the dock unfortunately. 2391-10 or not a proved Inspector

 

[Andy™]

Says Who ?You ? Me? NIC ? IET ?

Where did you do your 5 day course ? :slap

probably didnt even do a 5 day course. or at least not in electrical

 

[Electricalserv]

[quote name='Andy