Advice On Heating Load For Dimplex Quantum 150S

[Maikeru]

I asked my lecky to install 3 Dimplex Quantum 150 storage heaters in my 3 storey town house (one per floor) plus a Dimplex QRAD 150 panel heater in our baby's room. I'm wondering whether there's any way to avoid forking out an extra 600 quid for the additional circuit on the top floor he suggests below. When he calculated the load it may have been on the basis of us already having a 1kw Nobo panel heater in our master bedroom (at the front part of the house), but we don't actually need to use this. I'm thinking perhaps he could connect the QRAD 150 to the rear socket circuit and use the circuit in our bedroom at the front (currently supplying the 1kw panel heater) for the top floor QM150's 'on-peak' supply.

Thanks very much in advance for any suggestions. Tech specs for the quantum and qrad are on Dimplex's website (sorry I'm not allowed to post links).

[SIZE=medium]"I have looked at the circuits in your home and have some concerns about the amount of power required for the additional heating load.  There are three circuits which would be used for the additional load from these heaters due to their current positions in the property.  I am satisfied with the additional load for the heaters towards the front of the house, but there are two heaters (top landing and rear bedroom) which are closest to the rear socket circuit.  This is supplying the kitchen and is currently protected by a 16A circuit breaker.  As an example, a kettle or toaster will each draw about 10A.  A circuit breaer will allow an overload to pass through for a period of time, as the cables will not be damaged by a slight overload for a short period of time.  The additional heaters have a current rating of about 12A.  To add this to the current circuit will create a design overload that is likely to cause the circuit breaker to operate.  It is also likely to increase the rate of ageing of the circuit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]A solution would be to take an additional circuit up to the first floor.  If I remember correctly, it is possible to run a cable through voids from the airing cupboard to the garage.  This will provide sufficient capacity to run the heaters on the top floor without detrement to the existing installation. Please confirm that this proposed cable route is possible. I have prepared our quotation on the basis of installing an additional circuit using this cable route."[/SIZE]

 

[Essex1]

Hi mate and welcome.

So you will listen to a bunch of forum members but not the sparks that has surveyed the property?

My advice is get three quotes and ask for those quotes to provide a complete breakdown on what is required. No one here can give you better advice than that of a person who has seen the job.

 

[NozSpark]

I would say that the guy that you have had around is correct... the circuit is inadequate for the additional load

Now where you can get that additional power from... I don't know

All the Quantum storage heaters that I've installed in the past have required a dual supply,,, E7 and 24hr

 

[ProDave]

Am I missing the obvious point? that a storage heater is normally wired on a dedicated radial circuit from the off peak consumer unit.

So each heater would require a new circuit.

Or do these new fangled storage heaters work on some kind of voodo electricity?

 

[Maikeru]

Am I missing the obvious point? that a storage heater is normally wired on a dedicated radial circuit from the off peak consumer unit.

So each heater would require a new circuit.

Or do these new fangled storage heaters work on some kind of voodo electricity?

The off-peak circuits are already there as the property used to have the 'old-style' storage heaters (which didn't need a peak supply as well). The problem is the additional load required for the Quantum's boost function on peak supply.

 

[Essex1]

What leads you to trust us over your electrician?

 

[Maikeru]

What leads you to trust us over your electrician?

It wasn't so much that; it was more I was keen to know if removing the existing panel heater in our bedroom and connecting the Quantum's peak supply to that would solve the problem (since they are almost exactly the same input rating). I was also keen to know if any electricians here had any alternative suggestions to bringing an additional circuit up to the top floor at a cost of 600 quid. 

Winter is now upon us and I have a 2 month old baby so need to get this sorted in a matter of days. I'm not sure I have time to get other people in to give a second opinion really. 

 

[Essex1]

Reading the op again it sounds as if the removal of the master bedroom heater was not on the table when he quoted. I would go back to him with this idea to see what he says. On the face if it I can see no issue.

Electric heating is a huge demand on your overall household requirements and needs designing properly. I am sure you would be on here complaining if your socket circuit kept tripping when you turned the toaster on for example.

 

[Lurch]

£600 for a radial circuit to a heater point? Unlikely, probably £600 including the additional works required anyway so the actual extra cost of adding the circuit will not be £600, or anywhere near it.

If it is really £600 just for adding a radial circuit I am taking out an advert in your local paper as it sounds like it's worth it, even with travel times.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Thanks very much in advance for any suggestions. Tech specs for the quantum and qrad are on Dimplex's website (sorry I'm not allowed to post links).

Welcome to the forum. As has been suggested it is generally true that anyone who has been to a site, seen the circuit distribution from the consumer unit and incoming supply characteristics will have a much greater knowledge of what the best solution than anyone who has not visited site.  The best solution is additional quotes, if you say you don't have time for this then the answer is to accept the quote you have been given and get this electrician booked in before he gets committed to doing other jobs.  Dimplex links,

http://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/domestic_heating/installed_heating/index.htm

http://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/domestic_heating/installed_heating/q-rad/technical_specification.htm

http://www.dimplex.co.uk/assets/kb/operating_instructions/0/Quantum_Series_F_Installation_Instructions_Issue_1.pdf

Doc H

 

[ProDave]

Hold on, an EXTRA £600 to install ONE additional circuit.

I would be questioning how he arrived at that figure and getting another quote.  At my hourly rate that would be about 4 full days work.  Is it really such a difficult location to get a new circuit to?

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

£600 may not be a bad price. Take away Vat, thats now £500. It could  well be a days work for 2 people, plus an extra board, cable, trunking, breaker, rcd etc.

Then possible parking fees , congestion  charges etc.

Not over the top  without knowing more.

Where's  that thread about us undercharging/not getting recognition for our work

 

[Essex1]

£600 may not be a bad price. Take away Vat, thats now £500. It could  well be a days work for 2 people, plus an extra board, cable, trunking, breaker, rcd etc.

Then possible parking fees , congestion  charges etc.

Not over the top  without knowing more.

Where's  that thread about us undercharging/not getting recognition for our work

I was thinking the same tbh. So much unknown that it is impossible to say if it is good or bad. Could be a 3 storey townhouse.

 

[Maikeru]

It includes the trunking needed to connect the 3 Quantum heaters to peak supplies, as well as installation of one of the heaters from scratch and installation of one panel heater. He will probably charge me over 100 for the couple of hours his guys spent building the other two heaters. So 700 quid in total for:

- Installation of 3 Quantum 150 storage heaters (including connection to peak supplies using trunking) 

- New circuit on top floor (from consumer unit on ground floor)

- Installation of one panel heater (that requires a longer cable than that provided by Dimplex to reach the supply)

I'm in outer south west London (a couple of miles from Surrey border). I must concede 700 is probably about right for the area..........