Air Source Heat Pump Grant

[Creakyride]

Not sure if this forum can help.

I am applying for the grant and wondered if any of you had any info on what is likely the grant to cover, in the way of brands, size, rads, HW tank, programmers type etc...

My worry is that the installer may install a sub standard system in order to make more money, as is very likely I won't have a say on it. I think I won't see the cost involved for supply the system.

What should I ask about it all?
The installer is coming tomorrow to survey the property.


Thanks.

 

[binky]

to be honest that's pipe strangler territory. Only thing I would say from my days working at Toshiba Air Con factory, is the Mitsuibishi and Daiken make good gear, and Toshiba for that matter, but they were always expensive. I have no idea what else is out there. Do be very wary of running costs, ASHP tends to run at 3-1 efficiency on a bad day, 5-1 on a good day, so you still have to put a lot of leccy in to get energy back, plus it will need servicing at about 5 yearly intervals. I will stress I am probably out of date on such gear. I looked into going down this route some years ago, but decided not too in the end, and I havn't kept up with it since.

This company used to run a scheme whereby you could install gear yourself, and they would sign it off. I don't know if they still do that,but a quick scan of the website would suggest they offer some good guidance.

https://www.nu-heat.co.uk/renewables/air-source-heat-pumps/

 

[johnb2713]

I've looked at air - water heatpumps many times and they just dont quite cut it compared to gas from a monetary point of view, obviously from a green angle they're good. Generally the water flow temperatures are way down on a gas boiler hence the need for bigger radiators, study very carefully the COP at low outdoor temperatures, some them are very close to 1 which is no good.
Samsung have just announced a new heat pump that promises flow temperatures of 75 degC and a COP of 3.5 at -10 deg C outdoors. If this is true, it's an absolute game changer.

 

[Creakyride]

The installer has been appointed by the Better Home Better Health organisation. Not sure if I can choose my own installer.
For the grant to be given, the installer needs to have the Trustmark certification, I assume because of this, the installer should not supply and fit to substandards.

Like many, I have been watching a few YouTube videos to learn from it, but as usual there are some in favour and some others not in favour. Some say that the old systems of past years were not that efficient and coupled with bad surveying and lack of knowledge, it rendered the system useless.

I will ask about the COP rating at low temperatures.
One thing for sure, I don't want the system underperforming.

 

[ProDave]

How old is the house and how is it heated at the moment?

I am of the opinion heat pumps are really only suitable for modern very will insulated houses and then perferably with low temperature under floor heating.

Simply swapping a gas boiler for a heat pump without much other modification is unlikely to work well.

See what they are offering and post the details here before agreeing to it,

 

[Creakyride]

1930's semi, walls and loft insulation, most of the rads are double convection apart from 2 which are singles, tails are 15mm pipes. As stated on another thread, the boiler is about 37 years old, the hot water immersion tank was replaced a couple of decades ago because the previous one was leaking.

 

[Creakyride]

See what they are offering and post the details here before agreeing to it,

Will do.

 

[Geoff1946]

According to an advert' I've seen on social media you can get a grant to replace an aged boiler with a new gas boiler. I've no idea if there are hidden snags, (probably) or it's a complete lie, (unlikely), but perhaps an option to research.

 

[Creakyride]

Not sure about been available under the grant, it can be possible with the ECO "Energy Company Obligation" scheme but I believe it is only applicable to some homeowners that are getting some specific government benefits.

 

[binky]

Not sure about been available under the grant, it can be possible with the ECO "Energy Company Obligation" scheme but I believe it is only applicable to some homeowners that are getting some specific government benefits.

Trouble is its all run by quangos against a background of government policies which are very much a ' candle in the wind'. And it's all underfunded, so what's available now might well disappear in under 6 months. Gaslighting or greenwash probably describes the current governments true level of commitment to green policies. I shall stop there as it makes me angry.

 

[awarner]

to be honest that's pipe strangler territory. Only thing I would say from my days working at Toshiba Air Con factory, is the Mitsuibishi and Daiken make good gear, and Toshiba for that matter, but they were always expensive. I have no idea what else is out there. Do be very wary of running costs, ASHP tends to run at 3-1 efficiency on a bad day, 5-1 on a good day, so you still have to put a lot of leccy in to get energy back, plus it will need servicing at about 5 yearly intervals. I will stress I am probably out of date on such gear. I looked into going down this route some years ago, but decided not too in the end, and I havn't kept up with it since.

This company used to run a scheme whereby you could install gear yourself, and they would sign it off. I don't know if they still do that,but a quick scan of the website would suggest they offer some good guidance.

https://www.nu-heat.co.uk/renewables/air-source-heat-pumps/

Ashp should be serviced every year by fgas qualified engineer also helps with warranty, don’t know about other brands but Mitsubishi ecodan are excellent been happy with mine for the last five years

 

[ProDave]

Ashp should be serviced every year by fgas qualified engineer also helps with warranty, don’t know about other brands but Mitsubishi ecodan are excellent been happy with mine for the last five years

That might be true of a split ASHP that does indeed have live fgas pipework between the inside and outside unit, but a monoblock ASHP does not even need an fgas engineer to install it as it comes ready gassed and just like your fridge, the only time you might have to worry about an fgas issue is if it stops working.

 

[Steviesparkie]

That might be true of a split ASHP that does indeed have live fgas pipework between the inside and outside unit, but a monoblock ASHP does not even need an fgas engineer to install it as it comes ready gassed and just like your fridge, the only time you might have to worry about an fgas issue is if it stops working.

Awarner is correct.should be serviced annually by fgas engineer.the ac circuit is the heart of the energy transfer system..another myth from dodgy salesmen/installer and greedy builders.

 

[Creakyride]

The qualified surveyor has just left my property.
He's done allot of measuring and asked questions about the insulation in all the property, checked outside for a possible locations for the ashp and cable routing. Inspected the loft for a possible location for a 200 litre HW tank. I explained to him that I don't want any noise from the equipment that could keep the family awake at night.

He will do the full, detailed report and will send it to the installer which in turn will send it to me (hopefully), he left his card with me too.

He reckons that ASHP is viable for my property and that he will recommend a monoblock type unit.

 

[Creakyride]

A quick update on the ASHP...

After having to keep chasing the installer for him to visit the property, because of complications with the surveyor report that needs addressing, I have been advised to get another opinion from a different surveyor and to use a different installer.

I cannot believe it...
Basically the installer wanted to just turn up ONLY when he was ready to fit the system. I could understand if there were no issues with it but there are a few.

So now I await for new contacts.

 

[Gian]

I've looked at air - water heatpumps many times and they just dont quite cut it compared to gas from a monetary point of view, obviously from a green angle they're good. Generally the water flow temperatures are way down on a gas boiler hence the need for bigger radiators, study very carefully the COP at low outdoor temperatures, some them are very close to 1 which is no good.
Samsung have just announced a new heat pump that promises flow temperatures of 75 degC and a COP of 3.5 at -10 deg C outdoors. If this is true, it's an absolute game changer.

Check out YouTube heat geek they really push how the are 600% efficient. May be in warmer conditions. I find it hard to quite understand how people want all there homes to run 100% on electric. We have a fair share of power cuts in midwales and if homes were to have heat pumps they would be cold for sure. Many people have run out and purchased small generators from Lidl small petrol gennys 1.8 KW and it's enough to get there gas or oil burner running to keep warm and have hot water and watch TV and lights. If they had a heat pump then that little generator would not be able to power the heat pump . And watching news there is a huge possibility of power cuts in January apparently. But why would you now want everything in your home to be electric. I think heat pumps are an advantage and my intentions is to run one side by side my lpg boiler. I have no intention of ripping it out. I like the ability to be able to choose how I heat my home and making sure I can when power is off.

 

[johnb2713]

Check out YouTube heat geek they really push how the are 600% efficient. May be in warmer conditions. I find it hard to quite understand how people want all there homes to run 100% on electric. We have a fair share of power cuts in midwales and if homes were to have heat pumps they would be cold for sure. Many people have run out and purchased small generators from Lidl small petrol gennys 1.8 KW and it's enough to get there gas or oil burner running to keep warm and have hot water and watch TV and lights. If they had a heat pump then that little generator would not be able to power the heat pump . And watching news there is a huge possibility of power cuts in January apparently. But why would you now want everything in your home to be electric. I think heat pumps are an advantage and my intentions is to run one side by side my lpg boiler. I have no intention of ripping it out. I like the ability to be able to choose how I heat my home and making sure I can when power is off.

600% efficiency in warmer conditions - just when you dont need it.

I'd like my home to run on 100% electric to help with pollution, to get cheaper energy and to remove the daily charge for the gas meter. That does however, seem to be a way off yet.

When I looked at air / water heat pumps, to get the government grant the gas boiler had to be removed which again, was a game changer for me and was a major point against going with the air - water system.

 

[Geoff1946]

I'm not a fan of having all my eggs in the same basket. I'm planning to install an air sourced heat pump, aka split unit air conditioner into my conservatory, where due to the design of my bungalow it will supplement the gas fired heating in the rest of the building in winter, My present power cut precautions are a portable LPG heater. I f power cuts become regular I will be adding a leisure battery and inverter to run the gas boiler.

 

[ProDave]

I find it hard to quite understand how people want all there homes to run 100% on electric. We have a fair share of power cuts in midwales and if homes were to have heat pumps they would be cold for sure.

For us a heat pump made perfect sense. But we are out in the countryside, no mains gas so the choice was oil, LPG or electric. The new house we just finished building is very low energy (not quite passive house) so a small ASHP made perfect sense and does the job well with low running costs.

And for a power cut? The Wood burning Stove takes care of that. We could heat the house entirely from the WBS if I put more effort into collecting and preparing firewood.

 

[johnb2713]

For us a heat pump made perfect sense. But we are out in the countryside, no mains gas so the choice was oil, LPG or electric. The new house we just finished building is very low energy (not quite passive house) so a small ASHP made perfect sense and does the job well with low running costs.

And for a power cut? The Wood burning Stove takes care of that. We could heat the house entirely from the WBS if I put more effort into collecting and preparing firewood.

Sounds perfect, if there are major refurbishments going on or a new build, underfloor heating is the real way to use an air / water heat pump, they were made for each other.