Another cowboy found.

[Murdoch]

bit excessive unless there was a lot of travel in that, or replacing parts

no parts

 

[Andy1733]

Well that opened a can of worms hehe.

 

[Andy1733]

I've had this discussion many times with electricians, landlords and agents. The consensus seems to be that pretty much any EICR should be done within 1 - 4 hours (and these are the supposedly reputable firms). The idea of anything longer than that seems to be bordering on the ludicrous to them.

However, just to give you some context, I have 22 years experience as an electrician across various industries, and spent 3 of those years working for a frim who did nothing but domestic and commercial EICR's. They never touched any remedial work, so had no vested interest, and did everything by the book.

I learned more in my 3 years there than in the other 19 years combined. Despite what a lot of electricians will tell you, EICR's are NOT something that just any sparky can do. They require knowledge and experience way above the average to do them properly, interpret the results and produce an accurate report.

As an educational excercise my last apprentice and I tested my own house, in order to go through the process and teach him properly. It's a 3 bed semi detached with a seperate 2 way consumer unit in the garage, a total of 13 circuits.

Bog standard.

It took us 9 hours to carry out the EICR properly, including about 10% sampling (removing of covers and carrying out visual inspections), which is the bare minimum. And keep in mind that this is a property that I live in and know like the back of my hand.

Yet I could go online this morning and find a minimum of 5 sparkys willing to do it for less than 100 quid within the hour.

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions about the state of the industry and the cluster**** that is EICR's.

Yeah but you can't blame landlords for what they think it should take.
My sparky says it's half a day who am I to argue. If they say it's a 2 day job to do it correctly how am I to know if it's right or a rip off especially when the next sparky comes in with. No mate. 1/2 a day it will be sorted

 

[Andy1733]

That's an extremely cheap rewire

As a landlord I was wondering. How much would a rewire be on a std 3 bed semi

 

[mort2376]

As a landlord I was wondering. How much would a rewire be on a std 3 bed semi

My standard answer now a days to that question is "they start at £5000."

 

[user 35896]

An EICR is basically just getting paid for an estimate. There is always something wrong with every installation but now there is a forced way to get this down in writing in case of fire or electrocution. Guess it gives the insurance a way out too.

 

[UNG]

An EICR is basically just getting paid for an estimate. There is always something wrong with every installation but now there is a forced way to get this down in writing in case of fire or electrocution. Guess it gives the insurance a way out too.

So you add the repair costs to your observations then even when there aren't any

 

[msec]

Yeah but you can't blame landlords for what they think it should take.
My sparky says it's half a day who am I to argue. If they say it's a 2 day job to do it correctly how am I to know if it's right or a rip off especially when the next sparky comes in with. No mate. 1/2 a day it will be sorted

I don't blame landlords for not knowing how long it should take, however, both they and letting agents should accept that they have some culpability for not questioning how one sparky can do something for 60 quid that another is charging 200 for, and immediately jumping to the conclusion that the 200 quid one is ripping them off without doing any research whatsoever. Which is what a good proportion of them do.

From a broader perspective, I find it quite telling that of the landlords and agents I've dealt with over the years, most of them don't even know the correct name of an EICR, let alone what it is, what it constitutes, how long it should take... in fact pretty much anything, despite the information being extremely easy to find. Practically all of them had an opinion on what they should cost though, and it's almost always well below what should be realistically expected.

The common sense theory would be that any reputable and thorough landlord or agent would have extensive knowledge of EICR's built up over time, as they both verify the electrical safety of their properties, and obtain proof that they are meeting their minimum duty of care to safely maintain the property under the Landlord & Tenant Act.

EICR's (formerly Periodic Inspections before they changed the name) have been the only way to do this for decades. So my question would be, why, before they became mandatory, did so few landlords and agents even know they existed?

This isn't an attack on landlords or the property industry by the way. 90% of the time they have my support, but on some issues, with a significant portion of them it can turn into amateur hour.

 

[Andy™]

So my question would be, why, before they became mandatory, did so few landlords and agents even know they existed?

because they were not mandatory. as such they had no reason to know about it / get it done. after all, it works so it must be safe...

 

[Murdoch]

because they were not mandatory. as such they had no reason to know about it / get it done. after all, it works so it must be safe...

Spot on. Letting agents would tell their clients not to bother with them

 

[Andy1733]

I don't blame landlords for not knowing how long it should take, however, both they and letting agents should accept that they have some culpability for not questioning how one sparky can do something for 60 quid that another is charging 200 for, and immediately jumping to the conclusion that the 200 quid one is ripping them off without doing any research whatsoever. Which is what a good proportion of them do.

From a broader perspective, I find it quite telling that of the landlords and agents I've dealt with over the years, most of them don't even know the correct name of an EICR, let alone what it is, what it constitutes, how long it should take... in fact pretty much anything, despite the information being extremely easy to find. Practically all of them had an opinion on what they should cost though, and it's almost always well below what should be realistically expected.

The common sense theory would be that any reputable and thorough landlord or agent would have extensive knowledge of EICR's built up over time, as they both verify the electrical safety of their properties, and obtain proof that they are meeting their minimum duty of care to safely maintain the property under the Landlord & Tenant Act.

EICR's (formerly Periodic Inspections before they changed the name) have been the only way to do this for decades. So my question would be, why, before they became mandatory, did so few landlords and agents even know they existed?

This isn't an attack on landlords or the property industry by the way. 90% of the time they have my support, but on some issues, with a significant portion of them it can turn into amateur hour.

you say the landlord should know what is involved in the test and how much it costs. Yet most of the posts in this thread are slating cowboy Sparky's for charging a low amount when some say it should be 3x the cheap quoted.

If I get 4 quotes for the test.
One at £60 at 2 hours
One at £100 at 1/2 day
One at £150 at 1/2 day
One at £250. At 1 day
How is a landlord to know which would do a good job and which is the correct price.

 

[MikeJhn]

A few indicators are:
"No such thing as a free lunch"
"You get what you pay for"
"Insert as required................................."

Oh and it used to take me at least 1.5 days to carry out an EICR, one day on site 1/2 day preparing the report, back ten years ago when I was working would cost the client £750.00 minimum, but most of my work was in Hampstead/Golders Green area.

 

[Andy1733]

Yet earlier in the thread murdock said.

"Minimum 1/2 day plus 1 hour assuming good access to all points - if the property is stuffed full then 1 day

Then apply your local rates"


So are you saying he's a cowboy not doing the job correctly or your overcharging because it's Hampstead and you can?

Geeez and yet sparky tar landlords with the same brush Whilst you read threads like this. Shocking

 

[MikeJhn]

I never called anyone a cowboy, what is shocking is that you under value your work, I charged the going rate for the area, which at that time was £50.00/hr, all plus travel time and overheads.

 

[Andy1733]

I never called anyone a cowboy, what is shocking is that you under value your work, I charged the going rate for the area, which at that time was £50.00/hr, all plus travel time and overheads.

So Murdoch is shocking because he under values his time. Yet 5 hours max was what he can get the job done in! So even if he's charging the same £50 per hour it's taking you approx 8 hours longer????.

Is there any wonder why the general public and landlords tar all tradesman in the cowboy camp or rip-off camp.
Your posts explain it perfectly...

 

[Andy™]

its an awkward one. if you want a rewire / other work done then get a few quotes, chances are they will be similar cost / timeframe for the same thing

for an average sized house, id expect 2-3 hours. small flat maybe 1-2 hours (+ a bit time to write report). it also come down to accessibility too. empty house will take far less time tha an occupied house. and a house rammed with junk will taken even longer

yet im sure someone will disagree with that and say im a cowboy for being able to do it in that length of time... yet for those who say it'll take 8 hours, what are you doing for the other 5 hours?

and then it also depends how well you know the property. if ive already doe a previous EICR on the building then another will take far less time...

 

[Murdoch]

So Murdoch is shocking because he under values his time. Yet 5 hours max was what he can get the job done in! So even if he's charging the same £50 per hour it's taking you approx 8 hours longer????.

Is there any wonder why the general public and landlords tar all tradesman in the cowboy camp or rip-off camp.
Your posts explain it perfectly...

Oh dear

Lack of thought strikes again.

You have not asked what my minimum charge covers

So for clarity, small property, 1 consumer unit, access to all accessories, max 6 circuits

Talk about jumping to conclusions

 

[Andy1733]

Oh dear

Lack of thought strikes again.

You have not asked what my minimum charge covers

So for clarity, small property, 1 consumer unit, access to all accessories, max 6 circuits

Talk about jumping to conclusions

That would be a perfectly good reply but you already asked me what you were quoting on and how large the house was so which conclusion am I jumping too?
Post 23 if your struggling to find it

Btw I was sticking up for you as Mike implied you were not doing the job correctly.
Shan't be doing that again.
That's you off my Christmas list

 

[Andy1733]

its an awkward one. if you want a rewire / other work done then get a few quotes, chances are they will be similar cost / timeframe for the same thing

for an average sized house, id expect 2-3 hours. small flat maybe 1-2 hours (+ a bit time to write report). it also come down to accessibility too. empty house will take far less time tha an occupied house. and a house rammed with junk will taken even longer

yet im sure someone will disagree with that and say im a cowboy for being able to do it in that length of time... yet for those who say it'll take 8 hours, what are you doing for the other 5 hours?

and then it also depends how well you know the property. if ive already doe a previous EICR on the building then another will take far less time...

Imo your replays come across as a genuine tradesman who is willing to work for a honest days work and not the typical stereotypes most sparkly are lumbered with. And dare I say it. Like most landlords are.

 

[UNG]

What we have here is a landlord baiting electricians as quite clearly he is looking for satisfactory EICR's with extremely limited inspection time due to his minimal cost requirements

On the other side I have no doubt he and the courts would be on the electricians case if an incident occurred from something the electrician failed to notice or didn't have time to test and document

I find there is no point getting into a price war on EICR's and these days I generally only do them for customers I have worked for over many years as I will generally agree with them that any minor remedials will be sorted out at the time and charged, in fact a customer recently asked me to do an EICR and said I might have to change the CU before I do the EICR as he didn't think it complied with the regs he was right but not for the reasons he thought