Another what code question.

[dave2]

Been doing an EICR and found that there are 2 smoke detectors interlinked by---

a T&E with the earth used as the interlink. What code do you think?

Incidently, this was a a rewire that was done in 2008 (Under 16th edition) and I have a copy of the EIC. However the bonding conductors to gas and water are verified on the EIC but can I hell find the water connection even though everything looks ok at the board. Customer who rents out the property has no idea.

What would you put on the EICR?

 

[M107]

For the bonding verify by measurement & state on the report that is what you have done.

Use of the cpc conductor for the interlink C3

 

[Andy™]

a T&E with the earth used as the interlink. What code do you think?

C1. an earth is not insulated, only sheated

for bonding, test continuity. if there is continuity, then C3. although it could be sweated on in which case it doesnt need to be accessible, but if its not accessible, you dont know if doesnt need to be

 

[dave2]

Interesting that we have 2 different codes for the same problem which highlights the ambiguity in our work.

Normally I would test for bonding but in this case I cannot find the stop tap and all the accessible pipework is in plastic.

 

[Steve3948]

Well Code 1 is Dangerous, example Live exposed parts, which this clearly is not.

Code 2 Potentially Dangerous, could be.

Code 3 Requires improvement, definitely.

I would go with C3 personally.

 

[springcrocus]

I would go with C3 - the interlink only has a max. potential of 9v, not 230v. Also, all smokies I've ever fitted are class 2, so no earth required.

Interesting one...

 

[Andy™]

I would go with C3 - the interlink only has a max. potential of 9v, not 230v. Also, all smokies I've ever fitted are class 2, so no earth required.Interesting one...

iirc, some smokes can have 230v on the interlink

 

[springcrocus]

[quote name='Andy

 

[PC Electrics]

cpc used as interlink, code C2 IMO. Defo unsatisfactory.

Also if this means there is no cpc to the second alarm then this is another C3 code for lack of cpc. That the smokes are class II has nowt to do with it - 7671 requires a cpc to all points of utilisation (but cannot quote the reg of pat)

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 23:10 ---------- Previous post was made at 23:08 ----------

I'd recommend converting to RF for interlink (unless it's very easy to put in a single) and use the cpc for its intended purpose.

 

[steptoe]

Id code it C2 minimum, and most likely a C1, a cpc should be taken to every point of the circuit, unless to an earlier version in some instances.

That the smokes are class II has nowt to do with it - 7671 requires a cpc to all points of utilisation (but cannot quote the reg of pat)

 

[professional]

[quote name='Andy

 

[steptoe]

I would go with C3 - the interlink only has a max. potential of 9v, not 230v. Also, all smokies I've ever fitted are class 2, so no earth required.Interesting one...

even though it is only 9v it still has to be insulated to 230v.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 00:22 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:21 ----------

How is the 230v generated from the 9V battery in the event of a mains failure?---------- Post Auto-Merged at 00:20 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:17 ----------

The lack of a CPC in a circuit that does not require one can not be coded as anything above a code 3 as it is not dangerous ....

surely all mains cables are required to be run alongside, or adjacent to a cpc? notwithstanding the fact it is very unlikely this was wired to an earlier version of the regs.

 

[the professional]

hi pro , how did you become qualified as an electrician

 

[Steve3948]

even though it is only 9v it still has to be insulated to 230v.---------- Post Auto-Merged at 00:22 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:21 ----------

surely all mains cables are required to be run alongside, or adjacent to a cpc? notwithstanding the fact it is very unlikely this was wired to an earlier version of the regs.

3182Y Flex ?

 

[professional]

hi pro , how did you become qualified as an electrician

I clicked on the shortcut to the forum, the lights dimmed and the room went cold.

I should have known that you were here .... are you sure you weren`t looking for the screwfix forum?

 

[PC Electrics]

The lack of a CPC in a circuit that does not require one can not be coded as anything above a code 3 as it is not dangerous ....

Eeeerrrrrrr! ALL circuits require a cpc, irrespective of whether the equipment is class I or II

 

[springcrocus]

I've had another read through of all the posts and, although there have been some interesting comments, I still can't agree with any code higher than C3.

C1 is for immediately dangerous - well, it's not in my opinion.

C2 is for potentially dangerous - The only point that I have seen that could make this potentially dangerous was Steps' post concerning the fact that all wires in a cable should be insulated to the value of the highest voltage present. If there was a manufacturing fault in the cable, a single-fault condition (e.g. deterioration of the insulation of the line conductor) could become dangerous. However, I think that any manufacturing fault would have shown up on the original IR test and that, because of the extremely low loading on the circuit, any such potential fault would not deteriorate further. Therefore, I don't think that it's potentially dangerous.

C3 means it doesn't comply with the regs. Quite so, it doesn't

Apart from the above, I cannot see any situation where this is, or could be, dangerous. Yes it's a carp install and shouldn't be done and whoever did the original install must have falsified the certificate because one signs to state that it all complies to the regs.

Anyway, at the end of the day it's up to the person doing the tests to assess the install, using their skill and experience, to report on it's condition. We will all have different takes on coding but, for me, this one is still a C3

 

[SteveT]

If you are going to code this a C1 or C2 can you explain the danger present or potential.

yuo have

1. Class II, therfore not required to earth

2. 9V DC interlink

3. Cable loose in floor void, if not and buried <50mm could still be protected by RCD, which does not require CPC to operate

although not ideal, if properly labled is it really dangerous

if you had no CPC attached and ran an extra single as interlink would that be C1 or C2 - i think not.....ergo

C3 all the wy

 

[professional]

An inadequately insulated cable could not be allowed on a new install, but can not be deemed satisafactory on a PIR since there is potential for danger. As Steps had said, all cores need to be insulated in a manner siutable for a 230v system.

I think that what many are forgetting is that the outer sleeving on a twin and earth is for MECHANICAL protection, so the bare cpc is effectively uninsulated

 

[springcrocus]

An inadequately insulated cable could not be allowed on a new install, but can not be deemed satisfactory on a PIR since there is potential for danger. As Steps had said, all cores need to be insulated in a manner suitable for a 230v system.I think that what many are forgetting is that the outer sleeving on a twin and earth is for MECHANICAL protection, so the bare cpc is effectively uninsulated

Well sorry, Prof, but I don't agree that there is potential for danger. Not am I forgetting that the sleeve in not considered as insulation.

The cpc / interlink will never be at mains potential EXCEPT under fault conditions (which as I said in my post above, I consider to be an extremely remote risk) and one would expect the protective device to operate if this occurred.

I'm sorry, but in this instance you will not convince me that there is potential danger. So, for me, it's still C3.