Are we undervalued ........

[Sharpend]

Or do we have too many sparks now? 

Just browsing a renowned website for jobs and too my surprise a job was being advertised for a spread -plasterer/dry liner- for a rate of £17phr, now given that the average sparks rate goes somewhere between £13-£20 per hour Are we being held back in the wage rates? 

I appreciate that there is a C&G course for spreads but it can also be learned relatively easily without a course and their tool box is relatively sparse but it’s nothing compared to becoming a spark. Is it just a supply and demand issue or are we being undervalued? 

 

[kerching]

As the Gods of the building trade we have always been undervalued!....well not just building trade but you know what I mean

if you think of the skill set that most of us have acquired over the years, courses we HAVE had to do, courses we volunteered to,do ( possibly in our own time), the arsenal of tools we need, test meters and calibration of same

whereas in general, but not always

spread.....bucket of rusty tools and a pair of Covered steps if you are lucky

painter....a few brushes and a dust sheet

brickie...see 'spread'....but at least he has to measure AND remember it's 'one on top of two', ball of string

carpet fitter...kicker, Stanley knife, hammer stapler

roofer....axe, hammer , saw, bottle of White Lightning

:slap

ohviously only a brief summary, please feel free to add

 

[Evans Electric]

We have always been undervalued Sharpy .     But building trade wages , as I'm sure you know , are usually based on supply & demand and they usually work on  a measured rate scheme .   Plasterers at coverage per sq. mtr  , brickies the same .  

I agree , none of them are as qualified or controlled as sparks  .  (Possibly Gas fitters)     Its a long time since I was actually employed so just checked the JIB rates for 2019 , my rate would be  £15.08 hr   so  £ 480.00 week after tax   ( Don't know what NI is these days )  so approx.  £460 week  .

Gross :

Plasterer   on   £680 week 

Electrician on  £603.20  week 

I think , looking at this ,  If I were younger & employed & taking home around £460 /week   I'd certainly be backing off  from any kind of responsibility , planning jobs , ordering  mats , any kind of foreman duties ,  testing,  breakdowns , trouble shooting   etc.     I think I'd be joining the brigade of  turn up , throw in enough conduit /cable  to cover my ***  , then switch my brain off &  down the road like a big dog .  

Perhaps been SE for too long to revert to that situation . 

 

[Sharpend]

Which other field of employment can you be one of the technically highest/best qualified person and only earn a mediocre wage? 

 

[rapparee]

Seriously?

The moneys there if you want it, you just have to know how to get it.

Lashing in T&E isn't going to set you apart. You have to diversify or specialise.

I have guys subbed in on £30 an hour.

 

[Evans Electric]

Thats an excellent point Sharpie  and I can't think of any other field TBH .  

I wonder about the Union & the JIB pegging the rates within the trade .  I understand the reasoning  where each 3 year agreement  sets the labour rate  for quoting future work .    It tended to quell  pay demands I guess,  as the firm you worked for paid the  union rate  so it was a case of saying  Sorry guys , we're paying you the agreed rate .

I think I got a shilling an hour extra for running jobs  and I was paid Technician's rate to troubleshoot some of the jobs that were heading for disaster. 

I remember virtually every trade earning more than us on sites,  although  their hourly rates were always less than ours back then  ,  trades opted  to be paid  by results  .  It was , for many years , decreed that electricians should NOT be paid by results.       I think that promoted the " Job & Knock" system  for a while .   

I think we worked on throwing in a bundle of steel conduit a day  (30m)    Incd. all cutting ,screwing , bending ,fixing etc.     Long straight runs were a dream , forego dinner & a  2.pm finish .   It caused trouble on sites because the main contractor would notice a marked reduction in sparkies  by mid afternoons  ( not all worked the system)  and they started to threaten  with completion  liability clauses  ,  one rule for them  naturally. 

Lashing in T&E isn't going to set you apart. You have to diversify or specialise.

I have guys subbed in on £30 an hour.

Sharpies talking about the directly employed here though , Rapparound  not SE's subbing . 

I don't pay myself the JIB rate . 

 

[Sharpend]

Seriously?

The moneys there if you want it, you just have to know how to get it.

Lashing in T&E isn't going to set you apart. You have to diversify or specialise.

I have guys subbed in on £30 an hour.

As Deke said I’m referring to paid employment rates, which subbies have to accept if going via an agency or even sometimes direct. I’m always infuriated when someone offers me a job at the going rate which is referenced from the JIB rates and they think their doing me a favour,  as it no where near covers my overheads and pay rate that I’d get as self employed. 

I will also say this for clarification Raps, I am paid substantially more than any rate that the JIB and that that you have referred as I have indeed specialised! 

I just think that for all that an electrician has to go through in terms of training and hoops, the pay rates suggested are not reflective of this given what other trades are offered for less qualification and hassle. As I say can’t see where this happens in any other vocation. ??

 

[rapparee]

Fitters.

We have had fitters over from Birmingham and to be honest for the work that they do. Their wages are poor.

I see what the company charges for their work, I was shocked at how little trickles down to the workers.

 

[Evans Electric]

I see what the company charges for their work, I was shocked at how little trickles down to the workers.

Hasn't it always been that way ?      One of the reasons why I hate agencies . 

 

[Sharpend]

That’s called business isn’t it?

 

[Evans Electric]

It  certainly is  but I could do without the middle man TBH .  

In a way  I'm thinking of a situation we had some years back .            A local  spark with his own one man alarm business used to sub to us ,  good guy , his business was very up & down but we had an understanding he may have to slip off early or take a day away , it wasn't a problem .  

My mate took another subby on , young guy off a wholesaler's counter , time served but went straight into a wholesaler.

First guy was put out , he said you're paying this kid the same as me ,    he has half a tool kit , no transport ,  no steps , no power tools etc  .    

 

[Doc Hudson]

 Supply-and-demand, and how good you are at sales and marketing generally govern, who gets paid what, And how much is left over per job?

Doc H.

 

[revjames]

Something will have to change. Minimum wage is closing the differential between stacking shelves in Lidl (currently about £10/hr) and someone who has had to train hard on poor wages for 4 years to get something like a decent wage. Evans, you clearly havent been PAYE for a long time. NI is nearly as much as tax nowadays! I dont understand why we are behing plumbers (They only install watertight/gas tight conduit afterall) Perhaps things are tightening up with new registration scheme? 

 

[Phoenix]

Which other field of employment can you be one of the technically highest/best qualified person and only earn a mediocre wage? 

I saw a job listing on the local paper for a senior IT tecnician at the firm that looks after some of the same clients we do, think the hourly rate worked out about £13 or £14, I suppose not too bad :s but the kicker is I've been their charageout rates, they are roughly twice what ours are. So who is making the money?... its not the lads doing the job!

 

[ProDave]

When I last had a PAYE job, 17 years ago now, I thought I was well paid, it was enough to put me into the higher rate tax band, but when you worked out the hourly rate it was only about £14 per hour.

Now I am SE and work for £25 per hour, which I consider a low rate due to my location now, I would expect most SE electricians to be charging more than £25 per hour.  But of course I work a lot LESS hours now so am only a basic rate tax payer.

 

[Sharpend]

Something will have to change. Minimum wage is closing the differential between stacking shelves in Lidl (currently about £10/hr) and someone who has had to train hard on poor wages for 4 years to get something like a decent wage. Evans, you clearly havent been PAYE for a long time. NI is nearly as much as tax nowadays! I dont understand why we are behing plumbers (They only install watertight/gas tight conduit afterall) Perhaps things are tightening up with new registration scheme? 

??

https://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/posts/2019-electrician-salary-survey

 

[FLICKER]

I work directly employed and would only work for a rate that I am happy with. Anyone taking a job for a lesser rate than what they actually want only have themselves to blame. Yes there are jobs being advertised for pathetic rates but if you don’t like them move on. If no one took jobs at these poor rates then that would drive the rates up across the board. 

 

[Evans Electric]

Evans, you clearly havent been PAYE for a long time. NI is nearly as much as tax nowadays!

Well yes  , about 26 years ,  NI was about £2.50  /month  was it ?    ( It covered your State Pension only)     And then I passed the line where you don't have to pay it anymore .

I wouldn't be happy with today's JIB rate  TBH  , I earned more back then  although I took on more responsibility .    

 

[rapparee]

Well yes  , about 26 years ,  NI was about £2.50  /month  was it ?    ( It covered your State Pension only)     And then I passed the line where you don't have to pay it anymore .

I wouldn't be happy with today's JIB rate  TBH  , I earned more back then  although I took on more responsibility .    

I'm losing about £100 a week on national insurance.

I'm directly employed.

 

[ProDave]

 I dont understand why we are behing plumbers (They only install watertight/gas tight conduit afterall) Perhaps things are tightening up with new registration scheme?