Backwards step?

[steptoe]

Mileage is a moot point, I can do Manchester to Penzance in about 6 hours, how long would that take in an EV, considering you would probably need to charge it in the way,?
Less than 10 mins after getting there I can drive back again.
How long is the EV charging time,?
Time is money, so your cost per mile rises dramatically, BTW, the last time I done it, the cost was under £60 each way in fuel, plus my time.

 

[King Arthur]

It's already dwindling, or at least the easy to get oil is, hence the dreadful shale oil extraction in Canada. As for ownership, it's the sort of thing I believe should owned and run by ourselves, instead of effectively renting everything from the private sector.

Fossil fuels will cease to be a source of energy long before they actually run out. When it takes the same amount of energy to extract than it yields then it becomes just another mineral resource - still useful, but not as energy.
Good point about such fundamental things not being for profit though, along with other essentials such as water etc.

 

[binky]

Mileage is a moot point, I can do Manchester to Penzance in about 6 hours, how long would that take in an EV, considering you would probably need to charge it in the way,?
Less than 10 mins after getting there I can drive back again.
How long is the EV charging time,?
Time is money, so your cost per mile rises dramatically, BTW, the last time I done it, the cost was under £60 each way in fuel, plus my time.

with the fast chargers at motorway services you can fast charge in 30mins I believe, so that would equate to a longish pit stop, assuming there isn't a queue and the chargers are actually working. Some of the EVs have a range of around 300+ miles, but I hate to think how much they would cost.

 

[Mike.J]

My range is just over 700miles, on my 40mpg, only have a 60amp supply into our house so an electric vehicle would be very limiting and impractical for my over 50mile return journey average.

They myth about most car journeys being very short is obviously said by people who don't have occasion to use the M25 and face the traffic queues every morning and evening an its not queues of electric cars.

The range of EV's being over 300miles is a gross exaggeration by the manufacturers a bit like the MPG figures given by manufacturers of IC vehicles.

 

[King Arthur]

When the ICE was invented and cars became a practical and economic possibility there were all the same old arguments about why they were impractical and would not catch on. Petrol stations were few and far between and there weren't even tarmac'd roads! I think my favourite objection was that there would never be enough chauffeurs to drive those rich enough to actually afford a car in the first place! But we all know what happened and the necessary infrstructure issues were sorted out so I don't worry about such things for EVs. We could debate the timescale but surely not that it will happen.

My current car is 11 years old and has done 120k miles so it's at the stage where it could start costing serious money if anything breaks, so it's due for replacement. Since I'm retired I'm rarely in a hurry to get anywhere so 30-40 minutes of fast charging is really not a problem for me on those rare occasions when a journey is more than 200 or so miles. Besides, after 200 miles of driving I need a coffee break these days!

So I've been looking at EVs to buy next year and am currently thinking about a Tesla. We'll see.

 

[Murdoch]

FWIW I don’t think the barrier to using EV’s is range

It’s the cost to buy or lease

 

[steptoe]

FWIW I don’t think the barrier to using EV’s is range

It’s the cost to buy or lease

I'd say it's both.
You can buy an affordable 10 year old car/van for £1000 , how much is a 10 year old EV,?
And then the cost of replacement batteries......

 

[King Arthur]

I'd say it's both.
You can buy an affordable 10 year old car/van for £1000 , how much is a 10 year old EV,?
And then the cost of replacement batteries......

I've been looking at a Tesla 3 which is around £45k new. But with a £4k deposit, a 4-year PCP will cost around £550 per month for 10,000 miles per year.

I don't really know how that compares with an ICE vehicle but in my case I reach state pension age next year (66) and have never relied on needing it (have been happily retired for over 10 years) so I'm suddenly going to be getting around £850/month state pension, which after tax will pay for this deal, plus I'll be saving on fuel and road tax compared with an ICE car so it's a bit of a no-brainer for me.

They've already offered me £4600 for my car (Merc E-class estate, 11 years old, 120k miles) so I don't even have to find the deposit. It's very tempting!

 

[binky]

I've been looking at a Tesla 3 which is around £45k new. But with a £4k deposit, a 4-year PCP will cost around £550 per month for 10,000 miles per year.

I don't really know how that compares with an ICE vehicle but in my case I reach state pension age next year (66) and have never relied on needing it (have been happily retired for over 10 years) so I'm suddenly going to be getting around £850/month state pension, which after tax will pay for this deal, plus I'll be saving on fuel and road tax compared with an ICE car so it's a bit of a no-brainer for me.

They've already offered me £4600 for my car (Merc E-class estate, 11 years old, 120k miles) so I don't even have to find the deposit. It's very tempting!

Sounds like a plan to me .

Think I would go for that, although I personally don't like the 'plans'. I prefer to buy my vehicles and keep them for a long time.

 

[Mike.J]

I think the plans are a good idea if the provider is responsible for the battery replacement if needed.

 

[Murdoch]

I've been looking at a Tesla 3 which is around £45k new. But with a £4k deposit, a 4-year PCP will cost around £550 per month for 10,000 miles per year.

Ouch. That’s over £30k for 4 years

 

[King Arthur]

Sounds like a plan to me .

Think I would go for that, although I personally don't like the 'plans'. I prefer to buy my vehicles and keep them for a long time.

I agree about these sort of 'plans' and my instinct has always been to avoid them in favour of buying outright and keeping a car for a long time. Hence my current 11 year old car, my previous 17 year old one (Saab) and my 16 year old Defender.

But I feel, rightly or wrongly, that switching to an EV is all new territory so perhaps a 'toe in the water' approach for 4 years makes some sense. Anyway, with my state pension paying for it it'll be almost like having a company car, ie someone else's ultimate responsibility

 

[King Arthur]

Ouch. That’s over £30k for 4 years

True, but any £45k car is going to cost that sort of money over 4 years if you take into account depreciation and servicing etc.

I know we're all bitching about the price of petrol/diesel these days but in reality it's not the major cost of motoring - well, maybe for 'old bangers' but certainly not if you drive a decent car. After all, even the taxman allows 45p/mile as the cost of running a car, which is way more than the fuel cost even at today's inflated price.

Even at £2/litre and 35mpg that's 'only' 25p per mile for fuel, so approximately half the actual running cost of the taxman's average car (whatever that migfht be).

Motoring is costly whichever way you look at it.

 

[PaulieN]

Most households if average income could never afford an electric car anyway, never mind a new ICE vehicle, so why should they subsidise the elite few that can afford a piece of shit EV that costs as much environmental damage to produce as a diesel does in a 20 year lifespan,?
And that doesn't take into account the laughable recyclability of these so called environmentally friendly bits of crap.
90% of people that drive EVs do it for a feel good factor thinking they are helping the planet, they are delusional.

Oddly I agree with your first sentence, at least until "piece of shit" onwards, when you seem to revert to drivel and untrue nonsense! I think I'm getting the measure of you now. Your "that guy", the one every forum has, aren't you? Oh what fun...

 

[steptoe]

Oddly I agree with your first sentence, at least until "piece of shit" onwards, when you seem to revert to drivel and untrue nonsense! I think I'm getting the measure of you now. Your "that guy", the one every forum has, aren't you? Oh what fun...

You have no idea about me, or being that guy.
I just refuse to be taken for a gullible fool.
Maybe you should actually study some facts, and save some money,
There's only one thing that's easier than getting a fool to part with their money,
That's getting a gullible fool that thinks they know it all to part with their money,
Snake oil, that's what you've bought, just to give your inadequate self some sort of misguided feel good factor.

 

[PaulieN]

You have no idea about me, or being that guy.
I just refuse to be taken for a gullible fool.
Maybe you should actually study some facts, and save some money,
There's only one thing that's easier than getting a fool to part with their money,
That's getting a gullible fool that thinks they know it all to part with their money,
Snake oil, that's what you've bought, just to give your inadequate self some sort of misguided feel good factor.

I've been involved in EV's since 2007. Back in 2008 I built my own. I actually know exactly what I'm talking about on the subject and everything you're spouting about EV's, from carbon footprint of manufacture compared to ICE vehicles, to battery life and recyclability, is utterly incorrect and/or 20 years out of date. I've heard the exact same lame. incorrect arguments many times from those like you who've sucked up the FUD and lies from vested anti EV and renewables interests.

As for a fool and his money, well this fool retired at 52 with let's just say more than adequate resources, so not sure you can teach me much here either.

 

[steptoe]

I've been involved in EV's since 2007. Back in 2008 I built my own. I actually know exactly what I'm talking about on the subject and everything you're spouting about EV's, from carbon footprint of manufacture compared to ICE vehicles, to battery life and recyclability, is utterly incorrect and/or 20 years out of date. I've heard the exact same lame. incorrect arguments many times from those like you who've sucked up the FUD and lies from vested anti EV and renewables interests.

As for a fool and his money, well this fool retired at 52 with let's just say more than adequate resources, so not sure you can teach me much here either.

So, correct me then, as so far your figures don't come close to Audis figures, I guess they employ idiots,?
Retired with a lot of money, eh,? I suppose you need something to waste it on.
I know enough about EV to know they are possibly they future, but they certainly aren't the present.
But hey ho, you are off grid, generate all your own electricity, and have money to waste, no skin off my nose if you buy snake oil, and don't like being told the truth.
And just so you know, I'm not against green or renewable energy, just the eco-warrior crowd that can't accept that their environmentally friendly choices in transport is nowhere near as eco friendly as they think.
But then again, you know that about me anyway, I'm that guy

 

[PaulieN]

So, correct me then, as so far your figures don't come close to Audis figures, I guess they employ idiots,?
Retired with a lot of money, eh,? I suppose you need something to waste it on.
I know enough about EV to know they are possibly they future, but they certainly aren't the present.
But hey ho, you are off grid, generate all your own electricity, and have money to waste, no skin off my nose if you buy snake oil, and don't like being told the truth.
And just so you know, I'm not against green or renewable energy, just the eco-warrior crowd that can't accept that their environmentally friendly choices in transport is nowhere near as eco friendly as they think.
But then again, you know that about me anyway, I'm that guy

In order...

Those figures are way off, Since when where VW group companies bastions of honesty? lol!!

I don't ever waste money, I'm a tight Yorkshireman!

You're just not up to speed on how far they've come it seems.

I'm not off grid, don't even have solar, just buy my electricity from a 100% renewable supplier
https://octopus.energy/blog/100-green-what-does-it-mean/
Always try to seek the truth, pretty sure you're not a very good source, at least in this area.

You might not be that guy, I picked up a glimmer of hope with regard to your third point.

 

[steptoe]

.

I'm not off grid, don't even have solar, just buy my electricity from a 100% renewable supplier
https://octopus.energy/blog/100-green-what-does-it-mean/.

No such thing,
They buy carbon credits,
Yet something else you simply believe without the facts

 

[PaulieN]

No such thing,
They buy carbon credits,
Yet something else you simply believe without the facts

Nope, They self generate 100% renewable energy and feed into the grid, this is matched against tariff subscribers. Another of your made up "facts".

Anyway, enough, I'm not responding to you anymore on the topic, enjoy living in the past, driving your Diesel 600 miles without stopping to prove a point, hopefully you wont explode into a cloud of piss as your bladder finally gives up from abuse!