Bathroom Light Wiring

[Spark7]

Hello

Newbie here. I'm struggling to get a light and fan to work. So in the bathroom was a pull cord switch which had a 3 wire cable going to a ceiling rose. When pulled the bathroom light came on and the fan came on. I'm trying to put in (outside the bathroom) a switch for the light and a switch for the fan.

I've got a light switch with 4 switches outside the bathroom. Currently 2 switches are for upstairs and downstairs and they work fine. I thought I could put a bridge in this switch to give power to the light. I used the top of the switch, the common as the bridge from the light switch to the common? at the top of switch 3 and switch 4.

Switch 1 - downstairs lights, switch 2 upstairs lights, switch 3 bathroom fan, switch 4, bathroom light.

As you can probably guess it doesn't work.

How do I get power from this switch to make the light and fan work? Or do I need to feed power in from elsewhere?

Originally the ceiling rose had cable 1 - power in, cable 2 - fan, cable 3 - master bedroom light, cable 4 - switch

All help appreciated.

Many thanks

 

[Andy™]

very simple with a 3c&e fromt he light to the switch... no need for borrowing lives from potentially other circuits...

 

[Spark7]

very simple with a 3c&e fromt he light to the switch... no need for borrowing lives from potentially other circuits...

Thanks Andy

Sorry I don't know what this means

 

[Andy™]

way out your depth then. get someone who does know what they are doing to do it for you

 

[Geoff1946]

Come on fellas! It's Sunday so try to be nice.
If I understand correctly you have a double switch already on the landing and you are replacing it with a quad switch using the two additional ones for the bathroom. (?)
If so, then don't interfere with the two existing landing circuits at all. Just replace the bathroom circuit cables with a new length to your new switch location.
BUT there may be a complication. Does the fan just run when the light is on, or does it run on for a while after the light is switched off?
I gather that you want to control the fan and light independently. Is that so?

 

[Spark7]

Come on fellas! It's Sunday so try to be nice.
If I understand correctly you have a double switch already on the landing and you are replacing it with a quad switch using the two additional ones for the bathroom. (?)
If so, then don't interfere with the two existing landing circuits at all. Just replace the bathroom circuit cables with a new length to your new switch location.
BUT there may be a complication. Does the fan just run when the light is on, or does it run on for a while after the light is switched off?
I gather that you want to control the fan and light independently. Is that so?

Thanks Geoff, appreciate your help. Yes a double switch converting to a quad switch. I've removed the old set up in the bathroom, taken the switch out and I've ran a cable from switch 3 direct to the ceiling rose, then same again with a new cable from switch 4 to the fan. Previously the rose had power, bedroom light, fan, and bathroom light switch going to it. The fan ran when the light was on.

Yes I'm attempting to run fan and light independently.

My non electrical thought process is saying I need power going to the light switch and the fan switch? Or do I need to put power to the fan and to the light? I'm not sure how the switching works if I did the latter?

Thank you

 

[Fleeting]

Is the original loop in (supply) cable still at the rose because if so then you don't connect a live from your existing switch. I'm afraid I have to agree you should seek the services of an electrician, the circuit if not already in place needs additional RCD protection and likely notification to Building Control under Part P of the Building Regulations.

 

[Spark7]

Is the original loop in (supply) cable still at the rose because if so then you don't connect a live from your existing switch. I'm afraid I have to agree you should seek the services of an electrician, the circuit if not already in place needs additional RCD protection and likely notification to Building Control under Part P of the Building Regulations.

Hi Fleeting, no I took all of the cables from the rose and removed the rose. I joined the power and bedroom together so that the bedroom would still work. I took the fan cable and joined it to the new quad switch.

 

[Geoff1946]

If you have run cables from the switch position to the fan and light then you must have two neutral wires there, and two switches which require a live feed plus the associated earths. Forget trying to "steal" a live from the other circuits. Run in a twin + earth from the old bathroom circuit to the switch location. Connect together 3 neutrals, 3 earths, and the live goes to your two new switches.
Incidentally, I do agree that the whole circuit really should be on an RCD and your changes possibly justify part P notification.

 

[Fleeting]

Where are you taking a neutral from.

 

[Spark7]

If you have run cables from the switch position to the fan and light then you must have two neutral wires there, and two switches which require a live feed plus the associated earths. Forget trying to "steal" a live from the other circuits. Run in a twin + earth from the old bathroom circuit to the switch location. Connect together 3 neutrals, 3 earths, and the live goes to your two new switches.
Incidentally, I do agree that the whole circuit really should be on an RCD and your changes possibly justify part P notification.

The circuit is already on an RCD, sorry I didn't mention that earlier.

OK so where I have the bedroom and power joined together, run a twin + earth back from there to the switches. I want the light and fan to run independently so common x 2, L1 x 2, and L2 x 2. Currently 2 earths together, and then a blue and brown in L1 and L2 on each switch. Where would I put the incoming blue and brown? On one side/switch and then bridge the common from one to the other?

Thank you again for your help.

 

[Fleeting]

So is there a neutral at the switch.

 

[Spark7]

So is there a neutral at the switch.

At the switch there is a brown/live and blue/neutral coming in from the top; also on RCD. They are both on the two way switch for the upstairs / downstairs lights. The wiring x 2 from the lights has earth (all together), 2 grey wires going to the top two common, and brown in L1 and black in L2 on both switches.

 

[Fleeting]

Can you show some pictures.

 

[Spark7]

Can you show some pictures.

This was the original switch. I have mirrored this exactly on the quad switch. I'm not at the house at the moment so I can't show the quad switch sorry.

 

[Fleeting]

That blue is not a neutral.

 

[Spark7]

That blue is not a neutral.

OK. What is it?

 

[Fleeting]

It is the switch cable from the light fitting, brown line in and blue line out with the three core connected across it to the other switch for two way switching.

 

[Spark7]

It is the switch cable from the light fitting, brown line in and blue line out with the three core connected across it to the other switch for two way switching.

At the bottom of the galvanised box there are 2 cables coming in, grey, earth, black, brown. I thought these were the upstairs/downstairs cables. At the top of the box there is 1 cable coming in, that is the brown, blue, earth you are referring to.

I really appreciate you taking this time to help.

 

[Fleeting]

The cables are not clear but that is typical configuration for two way switching, the blue is not a neutral.