Cable Size

[Sidewinder]

philbas,

I suspect you may have misinterpreted that reg.

I suggest you check section 41 specifically section 417.

 

[philbas]

philbas,I suspect you may have misinterpreted that reg.

I suggest you check section 41 specifically section 417.

Point taken

 

[newman]

newman,I am sorry that you feel some of us are using scare tactics.

I am not using scare tactics I merely state facts.

The reason I state facts is that these cannot be disputed and, they are not my views, thus not scaremongering.

You have a big issue, that you will end up (are) responsible for.

You have to get the installer to come to the party to sort it.

Whilst it may be OK to have the inverter 3m in the air in his opinion, and perhaps yours and others on here.

It will not be the opinion of any professional witness if the guy isolating it falls off the ladder and dies.

The fault for this will be placed firmly at your feet as it is your premises.

Not what you want to hear I know.

However, you are going to have to write formally, recorded delivery to all of his recognition bodies preferably until one of them will address the issues.

We can give all the advice you want on here, but we are not on site, we have not seen the install, nor had chance to do a formal I&T and assessment of this against regulations & statute law.

You are the one on the spot, you are the one who will have to write to the "bodies" as it is your install upon which he has let you down.

To be honest I had you in mind when i wrote post 95If you are saying if I employ a person who is so well qualified for a PV job that he could have better qualifications than 90-95% of contrbuters on this forum and somthing goes/is wrong I could be fined or imprisoned then

THE WORLD HAS GONE MAD

 

[Manator]

Thats what electricians have been saying for years!

Its time the officials take the responsibility out of the hands of those who order the work and firmly place it at the feet of those who carry out the work.

 

[Sidewinder]

newman,

You are correct in your deductions.

There is no more to be said. :_|

 

[professional]

Thats what electricians have been saying for years!Its time the officials take the responsibility out of the hands of those who order the work and firmly place it at the feet of those who carry out the work.

But that would require them to actually BE competent ..... X(

 

[kerching]

At a slight tangent here, but bear with me as it is relevant

A few years ago a client needed a gutter re-lining [it was cast into the parapet wall of the property abutting a main road at a height of 4m max]

They could buy the materials themselves and fit same OR get a franchised installer to do the job and thus guarantee same for 25 years

They got franchised installer to fit same [these clients were not stupid however their problem was that they trusted the installer]

Part way through the job, knock on bottom of ladder...'what the frick do you want?' or words to that effect were uttered from the mouth of the roof monkey. To paraphrase the man at the foot of the ladder 'HSE..you are now the proud recipient of a closure notice' or whatever it was called.

HSE chap had sat across the road for 30 minutes filming the evidence so there was no dispute

Upshot was that HSE fell onto client like a pile of warm faeces as THEY were ulimately responsible for the lack of Elfun Safety, no guard rails, wrong access kit, 240v tools etc etc etc. HSE were never off site then for weeks...pulled the place apart. Found little or no other departures and were ultimately quite happy as the client was so responsible. THEY thought they were doing the right thing...alas they were incorrect............ :coat

 

[newman]

At a slight tangent here, but bear with me as it is relevantA few years ago a client needed a gutter re-lining [it was cast into the parapet wall of the property abutting a main road at a height of 4m max]

They could buy the materials themselves and fit same OR get a franchised installer to do the job and thus guarantee same for 25 years

They got franchised installer to fit same [these clients were not stupid however their problem was that they trusted the installer]

Part way through the job, knock on bottom of ladder...'what the frick do you want?' or words to that effect were uttered from the mouth of the roof monkey. To paraphrase the man at the foot of the ladder 'HSE..you are now the proud recipient of a closure notice' or whatever it was called.

HSE chap had sat across the road for 30 minutes filming the evidence so there was no dispute

Upshot was that HSE fell onto client like a pile of warm faeces as THEY were ulimately responsible for the lack of Elfun Safety, no guard rails, wrong access kit, 240v tools etc etc etc. HSE were never off site then for weeks...pulled the place apart. Found little or no other departures and were ultimately quite happy as the client was so responsible. THEY thought they were doing the right thing...alas they were incorrect............ :coat

Oh My Goodness.............It seems to me I would have been better of doing the job myself.......at least then I would have then been fined/imprisoned for my ownincompetence

 

[ProDave]

Oh My Goodness.............It seems to me I would have been better of doing the job myself.......at least then I would have then been fined/imprisoned for my ownincompetence

No you wouldn't

If you work as a trade and charge money, you have to comply with HSE law.

If you DIY work for yourself, you can do what you like. Work on uncertified scaffold with no handrail, or an unsafe ladder. All HSE can do for a dodgy DIYer is advise them, advice they can choose to ignore and kill themselves if they choose to do so.

A case up here someone in the village was building his own extension and had rigged up some scaffold with not enough pieces to do it safely. so he was working (bricklaying) on a platform of just 2 planks with no handrail. When he fell off and broke a leg, that was his only punishment. HSE were not interested. If that had happened to an employee the book would have been thrown.

 

[newman]

No you wouldn'tIf you work as a trade and charge money, you have to comply with HSE law.

If you DIY work for yourself, you can do what you like. Work on uncertified scaffold with no handrail, or an unsafe ladder. All HSE can do for a dodgy DIYer is advise them, advice they can choose to ignore and kill themselves if they choose to do so.

A case up here someone in the village was building his own extension and had rigged up some scaffold with not enough pieces to do it safely. so he was working (bricklaying) on a platform of just 2 planks with no handrail. When he fell off and broke a leg, that was his only punishment. HSE were not interested. If that had happened to an employee the book would have been thrown.

What I would Realy Like to Know is.........if all this true about HSE law(and I still find it a bit mind blowing,there's GOT to be another side to the argument),how does anybody ,who employ trades man know when HSE law being broken ,in other words what should I have done differently..........except increase my insurance premiums

 

[kerching]

If I teach a Diving course [at any level] and I receive remuneration for same OF ANY SORT even the cost of my fuel or lunch or a free car or entry to the dive site I come under HSE Diving at Work regulations...you think doing a risk assessment for putting up lights off a scaffold is a tricky document to write? Try doing one for being 40 metres under water!?!?!?!? if something goes awry I am Barrymore'd...if same thing happens to a bloke next to me who is being taught by his mate as a favour then HSE are not bothered! It is all down to whether you are 'at work'........ :coat

 

[newman]

Install update

Had someone round today to look at the system (never met anybody from the virtual world befor)

General conclusion ......bit of a Bodge

(a lot of a Bodge actually)

What I can't understand is ...once all the problems have been higlighted ,according to NAPIT, I have to have the installer (Cheif Bodger) round to rectifie them, do I get another report to see if this work is OK ,in my opinion once a Bodger ....always a Bodger

 

[newman]

How was the Virtual Member ?

I was amazed, my hand did not pass through him

anyway ,the main thing, he knows what he's on about

 

[kme]

That he does....

 

[newman]

That he does....

Can any body tell me ,

woulds the !% volt drop for the AC cable to the inverter,be included in all inverter manufactures instalation guides

 

[Manator]

Newman I think I am now fully aware of the company who carried out your install, it is also clear that the MD has not had control over his operatives. This is no excuse, and he should carry the full burden for your distress.

Have you wrote to him detailing your complaint?

His company is fairly high profile and any negative comments will impede his company profile, as such I would guess that he would do whatever is needed to keep you satisfied.

 

[newman]

Newman I think I am now fully aware of the company who carried out your install, it is also clear that the MD has not had control over his operatives. This is no excuse, and he should carry the full burden for your distress.Have you wrote to him detailing your complaint?

His company is fairly high profile and any negative comments will impede his company profile, as such I would guess that he would do whatever is needed to keep you satisfied.

Thank you for your comments

I recived my report for the PV system on Friday the 1st of June

On the 1st of June at 10am I sent a copy of the report to Mark Nelson NAPIT and my installer with a question

how can my cable conform to BS7671,as you state. but it does not conform to the manufacturers instructions

NAPIT's reply on the 6th june was

I have noted the findings of your report and I have discussed the situation with Derek . He will be in contact with you to discuss how he intends to resolve your complaint.

At this stage Derek is using his own complaints procedure as a registered MCS Installer to resolve your complaint so therefore there is no requirement for you to issue a formal complaint against the installer

It was only after another question to NAPIT and I informed them that the installer had not been down since 18th May did I eventualy got a responce on the 7th june which said he would contact me next week

Not what I would call a rapid responce

As for NAPIT I have made a complaint against Mark Nelson to David Cowburn

Managing Director, Standards Division,

I dont give it much hope

 

[Manator]

You have followed the correct procedure, I know this is distressing for you and frankly you should not have been placed in this position.

Complaints are taken very seriously and can effect the way the government issue any licence to the scheme providers. There are fundamental faults/problems with the system as it stands, as you are now fully aware.

Do not give up and keep a dossier of what all of this has cost you financially. Your problem will be solved I an sure of that and I do know that Derek will not allow his reputation or professional status be undermined by inept handling of a complaint.

Keep us informed with your progress, and I am sorry that you have had a bad experience with our trade, normally we like to think we are more conscientious.

 

[newman]

Install Update

As predicted got stonwalled at NAPIT

The reply from the greater good is below

I have had a response from the independent technical reviewer. They have made the following points to me:

 

[Jono Pashley]

well i really cant think of any words they show nothing but contempt