Can a non time served (short course) person call themselves an Electrician

[steptoe]

I mainly do domestic, occassionally commericial and i've got an agricultural job coming upBeen practicing electrical work for nearly ten years, self taught then later used a *sigh* seven week course to get some qualifications, and learn nothing more than I already knew but hey.

Went self employed last august after finishing college, enrolled with elecsa for part p and am already stacking up the jobs nine months in.

Wouldn't change my career choice for the world, its what i've always been good at and what i've always wanted to do, however unfortunaltey, being only 19, get some funny looks from other sparks at wholesalers and stuff, but surprisingly never had a customer question my ability "you look too young to be qualified", get a few inquisitive ones though

jameseye12, do you advertise yourself as an electrician?

and do you call yourself as an electrician?

just that part of your post would give me that impression.

 

[jameseye12]

jameseye12, do you advertise yourself as an electrician?and do you call yourself as an electrician?

just that part of your post would give me that impression.

Customers always refer to me as an electrician, but on all paperwork i list myself as either an electrical contractor or electrical installer. If talking to people I try to use anything but the word Electrician, otherwise it just sparks controversy

 

[steptoe]

Customers always refer to me as an electrician, but on all paperwork i list myself as either an electrical contractor or electrical installer. If talking to people I try to use anything but the word Electrician, otherwise it just sparks controversy

do you SPECIFICALLY tell your customers you are NOT an electrician?

that could be construed as relevant as with-holding of relevant facts, ie, mis-selling of services .

 

[safedepth]

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jameseye12, do you advertise yourself as an electrician?

and do you call yourself as an electrician?

just that part of your post would give me that impression.

Albert, why would he not call himself an electrician, the definition if which is someone who installed or fixes electrical equipment. No mention of apprenticeship.

 

[steptoe]

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Albert, why would he not call himself an electrician, the definition if which is someone who installed or fixes electrical equipment. No mention of apprenticeship.

where do you find that definition at?

EAWR states something different,

and, I would imagine most of the general public would have the view of an electrician being a time served tradesman.

still, thats only an opinion, EAWR is actually law,

as for your definition, :C

 

[safedepth]

where do you find that definition at?EAWR states something different,

and, I would imagine most of the general public would have the view of an electrician being a time served tradesman.

still, thats only an opinion, EAWR is actually law,

as for your definition, :C

From a dictionary. The same place the general public find definitions. I doubt many would look in EAWR, law or not. Most know nothing of building regs let alone the legal requirements to call yourself an electrician.

 

[steptoe]

From a dictionary. The same place the general public find definitions. I doubt many would look in EAWR, law or not. Most know nothing of building regs let alone the legal requirements to call yourself an electrician.

dont just make a random statement,

what dictionary, I cant find one that states what you have made to be a fact,

remember, you have stated a fact, not an opinion, you need to back it up when asked.

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a person who puts in and checks electrical wires etc.:a certified/licensed/qualified electrician

is what I get when I search online dictionaries.

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electrician noun - definition in Business English Dictionary - Cambridge Dictionary Online

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Quote Originally Posted by safedepth View Post[] the general public ......[] Most know nothing of building regs let alone the legal requirements to call yourself an electrician.

where the general public look and the legal requirements are two totally different things here,

in fact it may be a good precedent to have one of our 5WW friends taken to court over false advertising or some such endeavour,

now, there is an idea.

wonder what our scam friends will think of that?

 

[safedepth]

It would be very interesting to see the outcome of such a case. Would the government have us all taken to court or would they change EAWR.

 

[steptoe]

no, I take it by your position you are indeed a short course participant, or am I wrong in that?

by that token , and the fact you are unable to produce any evidence to back up your claim as to what constituents an electrician then I think unless you tell your customers beforehand that you are in fact not an electrician you could be guilty of fraud.

I think Professional actually posted about this very recently.

so, if you are in the position of having took a short course, and have no issues with this, why not make it public, and tell your customers, why not tell everyone?

or is it some sort or dark secret like being your mums daughters sisters husbands mothers partners wife that you are afraid of coming out?

there is obviously something you are ashamed of.

 

[safedepth]

no, I take it by your position you are indeed a short course participant, or am I wrong in that?by that token , and the fact you are unable to produce any evidence to back up your claim as to what constituents an electrician then I think unless you tell your customers beforehand that you are in fact not an electrician you could be guilty of fraud.

I think Professional actually posted about this very recently.

so, if you are in the position of having took a short course, and have no issues with this, why not make it public, and tell your customers, why not tell everyone?

or is it some sort or dark secret like being your mums daughters sisters husbands mothers partners wife that you are afraid of coming out?

there is obviously something you are ashamed of.

You are usually very thorough in your research on posters. My history is quite well documented on here but to save time I will summarise.

22 years in the Royal Navy as a mechanical then electrical engineer. Various city and guilds quals and an HND in electrical engineering. Left RN 2 years ago. Did a 5 week course only to learn nothing new from it except how to make off pyro which I intend never to do. 2382 and 2391. I do describe myself as an electrician.

My only shame is bothering to have this discussion with you when I should be getting some much needed beauty sleep before my impending court appearance!

 

[steptoe]

as I said safedepth,

you are indeed a 5WW

why do you try and defend the indefensible?

now, with all your training and expertise, tell me, what part of your naval trasining has a specxific bearing on how to with great aunt Maggies house?

Im not sure, is it the IT earthing system used on the gun decks? (you did work on them I take it?)

or the fact that you are yet another person to join our illustrious armed forces with the promise of a career for life only to be left short?

now you are on civvy street with a half baked course and think you have it sussed!

whats the word, all the kit full of sh*t, what 2391 do you actually have?

BTW, dont even start to argue on the armed forces comment, well, OK, do, but Ive been there so I doubt you will win.

I have nothing against ex-servicemen/women, its when they come out and think they have trades in civvy street that they need to learn fixing tanks and telecomunnications beacons on top of sangars isnt a big priority for most householders.

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You are usually very thorough in your research on posters. My history is quite well documented on here but to save time I will summarise. 22 years in the Royal Navy as a mechanical then electrical engineer. Various city and guilds quals and an HND in electrical engineering. Left RN 2 years ago. Did a 5 week course only to learn nothing new from it except how to make off pyro which I intend never to do. 2382 and 2391. I do describe myself as an electrician.

My only shame is bothering to have this discussion with you when I should be getting some much needed beauty sleep before my impending court appearance!

well, sorry to say you are both a fraud and an idiot

 

[Sidewinder]

Steps,

At least safedepth will have had the underpinning knowledge, which is identical no mater what branch of engineering you study, and Ohm is an Ohm, a Newton is a newton etc.

Thus, he had a good platform to start upon, so not quite like someone from a totally unrelated occupation who has never studied or worked in engineering, or construction previously taking such a course and proclaiming themselves as an electrician.

Whilst I understand your views on the Forces, I don't think that you can really knock the training, the principles are well taught, even though from then on things are highly specialised.

Maybe the comment by sd that he learnt nothing, is a symptom of the situation, in that the 5w courses don't teach you the things that are needed for the work?

Not having done one I don't know how much they teach about the differing methods of domestic construction you will see.

Mind I have to confess, I have to hang a HEAVY load on a lath & plaster wall shortly, never done this before, so I'm a bit concerned about this, no matter how long you've been around there is always something to get you, just around the corner.

 

[ProDave]

Mind I have to confess, I have to hang a HEAVY load on a lath & plaster wall shortly, never done this before, so I'm a bit concerned about this, no matter how long you've been around there is always something to get you, just around the corner.

A lath and plaster wall is a stud wall with lathes instead of plasterboard.

So to hang a heavy load, make sure you get some good fixings direct into the studs and you should be okay.

 

[Sidewinder]

Thanks Dave,

That was the plan, however, the load is a defined size, has a limited area in which to locate it, and we are not allowed to batten it too far off the wall!

I am thinking about trying the client out with a sheet of 18mm ply fixed to the wall first, if that is OK, then I'll try the householder with that idea.

 

[Zeespark]

Jake I would be careful about what you say about some 5WW on here. There are some that have come from the likes of panel wiring in the MOD here, so to think that they all knew nothing before starting is incorrect. Rather than blame people taking these courses, we should be fighting the people that teach these courses, as they have abused what the short courses were designed for IE, guys who have been on the tools for 20 odd years but yet didnt have the paperwork to say that they could do their job in the light of the advent of Part P.

AndyGuinness

 

[steptoe]

that may be so Zee, it simply reinforces the fact that 5ww are not electricians, there is a lot more to being a spark than doing a short course.

thats not to say that someone who has done a short course wont go on to become an electrician, in time.

but simply doing 5weeks then going self-employed because you cant get a job as you want electricians money is simply not on, and should be made illegal for these people to advertise their services as being electricians, thats plain and simply misleading to customers.

 

[Zeespark]

I agree with you Steps, these courses should really be advertised as training someone to become a DI, and saying as much, rather than an electrician. I can't see that happening wholeheartedly as these companies will find loopholes in their advertising to basically say that they are teaching learners to become electricians.

AndyGuinness

 

[jameseye12]

Not continuing the 'What defines an electrician"

Dont judge all 5ww as bad, I dont particularly care if you value them as electricians or not, i dont claim to be an electrician, but i do work on domestic and commercial sites doing all aspects of electrical work. And I'm a 5ww. So? Doesnt mean that I am unable to do the job. I have not in 10 months had one single complaint, dissatisfied customer or callback to a job because something has gone wrong. I am not short of work and most of my work is now coming from recommendations from other people i have worked for who were happy with job i had done.

I would say that you are wrong to judge me simply because i am a '5ww'. You don't know me, you have not seen my work, so therefore you cant form a valid opinion on me

And if you dont like it, F****ing tough!

 

[revjames]

Tough or not tough you are a DI and there should be a line of classification drawn if you ask me.

 

[steptoe]

I havent judged anyone, I have merely stated an opinion based on a fact,

why do people that have done short courses get all defensive when the fact they are not electricians is stated?

you could become one, as for your no callbacks, well you wont get any until somethings goes wrong, the average householder wont know any better/different.

I can only base my opinions on my own personal experiences of short course people, and yes, I have met some that go on to be very good electricians, and others that really do know their stuff,

but, over 90% of the others mislead their customers and mis represent themselves.

in all honesty I dont for one second doubt that if asked by Joe public or Bob in the pub or a customer what you do for a living you would say, "I'm an electrician" .

BTW, Im not an electrician either, I dont have an NVQ3. :|