Can a non time served (short course) person call themselves an Electrician

[Steve3948]

Tough or not tough you are a DI and there should be a line of classification drawn if you ask me.

However if he has all qualifications then technically he is on paper an Electrician, however without adequate hands on experience which will come over time after many mistakes I'm sure, I still make them 41 years later, but it's I forget what I've said.

 

[steptoe]

However if he has all qualifications then technically he is on paper an Electrician, however without adequate hands on experience which will come over time after many mistakes I'm sure, I still make them 41 years later, but it's I forget what I've said.

well, no, he isn't, do you know the definition of an Electrician?

and its not in BS7671, its in a statutory document.

but that raises another argument.

 

[jakecameron]

Zee

A guy wiring panels for years then doing a 5 week course although I'm not to happy is alot better than guys who are joiners one week then next week all trade contractors.

Here is one for u. We don't have part p bit was wiring an add on portacabin last week. It was in possition when I got there wire a sub from the existing mains to the exisisting prewired cabin. Test all circuits all fine apart from the ring and one lighting cct. Dead short across l/n/e start taking plates off to trace cables and find a new cable in one socket going along the way of the door opening(u guess what it is yet) ok mr joiner is ther something ur not telling me? Oh yes I cut through a cable when I made the knock through. Anyway strip it all out and joint in wall t&e all cores stripped back with no insulation on into connector and taped up tight. The ltg cct? Oh I furgot to say there was a light in the middle I took down I just shoved cables out the way.

Amazing.

 

[Zeespark]

I was not implying that you were knowingly tarring everyone with the same brush Jake. If it has come across that way then I do apologise. I agree, other trades should stick to what they know best, their own trade. One of the only times we need to manage with other trades (plumbing) if for bonding and CH heating wiring. I know where you are coming from. I have a kitchen fitter in the extended family, and he said that He could rewire My kitchen for us, I told My mum to get him to stick to His kitchen fitting, I had someone else in to wire the kitchen due to the fact that I was on crutches at the time and I wasn't Part P registered. So I do know where you are coming from. Alot of the short course training companies have ALOT to answer for.

AndyGuinness

 

[jameseye12]

Tough or not tough you are a DI and there should be a line of classification drawn if you ask me.

Never said I was anything, I'm just annoyed that people who do a short course are basically regarded as idiots.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:33 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:32 ----------

BTW, Im not an electrician either, I dont have an NVQ3. :|

Thats not what it says under your username

 

[jameseye12]

If the Cap fits as they say ? And believe me the cap fgits in lots of places - 5WW, 5DW, Di, AC, Time served

Thats not what I was getting at, I'm just making the point that I have never labelled myself on this forum or otherwise as an 'electrician'

And its ROD GOD not ROD MAN

 

[steptoe]

Never said I was anything, I'm just annoyed that people who do a short course are basically regarded as idiots.---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:33 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:32 ----------

Thats not what it says under your username

because according to statutory documents I am indeed an Electrician,

but apparently not on paper,

:C

 

[Steve3948]

because according to statutory documents I am indeed an Electrician,but apparently not on paper,

:C

Can you link me to these statutory documents, why are you not on paper, are you time served etc ??

 

[Manator]

Gentlemen, there will always be a divide between those who served an approved apprenticeship and those who did not. However it is now a fact of life and constant argument for or against is really counter-productive.

The only stipulation I would attempt to enforce is the ability to understand your limitations, and stay within your comfort zones until such experience and ability allows you to progress into other fields.

I have just won a contract that would have been lost to others who had no idea of the regulations other than what they thought were in force.

When the client questioned my background and those of the other tenders it soon became clear who was knowledgeable and those who were not.

I tend to stay within my own comfort zone, and whilst I have done some domestic works I think I would be a little lost and slow in doing so.

I would by that argument suggest that a DI could never install a few things that I have to install, and would omit them simply by the fact that they did not know they had to fit them.

What this forum does for me is to give me the backing and support of all types of electricians, and the portal to sound off some theories, and get immediate and useful help when I am faced with a problem that is not within my scope or abilities.

 

[Steve3948]

How long have you got ? :slap

Lets get this party started !!!!!!!:grouphug

 

[steptoe]

Can you link me to these statutory documents, why are you not on paper, are you time served etc ??

do you want to start with the ONE document we all HAVE to work to.?

 

[Steve3948]

do you want to start with the ONE document we all HAVE to work to.?

Hell go on then, Health & Safety at Work Act.

 

[Zeespark]

A part of the problem now is that you have companies specialising in different areas of the trade. There are very few companies that will now cover the big 3 areas. Could it be that employers get together and contribute more to training apprentices in all 3 areas rather than just one?

AndyGuinness

 

[Steve3948]

Well like steps I don't have NVQ????, I started in 1972 with a 5 year apprenticeship through the JIB with a local firm.

I did and passed my A & B but dropped out half way through C, at the end of my apprenticeship I was graded as an Approved Electrician.

Been doing all types for the last 41 years, but still learning haha.

 

[steptoe]

Hell go on then, Health & Safety at Work Act.

possibly,

I was thinking EAWR

 

[safedepth]

I havent judged anyone, I have merely stated an opinion based on a fact,why do people that have done short courses get all defensive when the fact they are not electricians is stated?

you could become one, as for your no callbacks, well you wont get any until somethings goes wrong, the average householder wont know any better/different.

I can only base my opinions on my own personal experiences of short course people, and yes, I have met some that go on to be very good electricians, and others that really do know their stuff,

but, over 90% of the others mislead their customers and mis represent themselves.

in all honesty I dont for one second doubt that if asked by Joe public or Bob in the pub or a customer what you do for a living you would say, "I'm an electrician" .

BTW, Im not an electrician either, I dont have an NVQ3. :|

Steps,

I had rather given up on this as you clearly have no intention of listening to other peoples opinions but rather like the vets avatar I couldn't let it lie.

With time on my hands this morning I have looked through EAWR and can find no mention of the word electrician. If you search for it it will give one result in appendix 1 concerning test gear.

Reading EAWR gave no mention of requirements to call oneself an electrician.

The Oxford English Dictionary lists electrician as a person who installs or maintains electrical equipment, esp. professionally.

Unless you can show, and I mean show not infer, some support for your ramblings about the legal requirements for describing yourself as an electrician then I think you should accept you are wrong.

As for not judging anyone, look back at post 44 I think, where you describe me as a fraud and an idiot.

As for your link here is the same site,

electrician noun - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - Cambridge Dictionary Online

I look forward to your apology.

 

[steptoe]

try regulation 16

I dont think many 5WW would comply with much of it, especially 234, 237(B)©(d)+(e).

dictionaries are not statutory, EAWR is.

 

[jameseye12]

try regulation 16I dont think many 5WW would comply with much of it, especially 234, 237(B)©(d)+(e).

dictionaries are not statutory, EAWR is.

Yes however, this is again your experience of 5ww, does not refer to the term 'electrictrician' in any way

You may have experienced 5ww that dont meet these, but i could certainly argue that I am not in breach of EAWR,

and if i were to call myself an electrician, then as far as I can see the EAWR doesnt govern use of the word

 

[safedepth]

try regulation 16I dont think many 5WW would comply with much of it, especially 234, 237(B)©(d)+(e).

dictionaries are not statutory, EAWR is.

No, I say again. Show me where it specifies that certain qualifications are required. I have read 16. In no way does that preclude me from calling myself an electrician. I work within my area of knowledge and only say what can be quantified, try it!

My training in many areas over many years taught me how to be safe.

You claim that on paper without NVQ3 you cannot call yourself an electrician, is your 2391 not a level 3 or am I on a different track there?

Once more, actually show us where it states that to be called an electrician you have to have certain qualifications, if not then wind your neck in for goodness sake.

 

[revjames]

If proper 4 year apprenticeships had remained there would be no ambiguity. As it stands pretty much anyone can call themselves an electrician and there seems little to measure 'competency' even passing 2391 is non real test as anyone can regurgitate info. In industry there are sparks (4 year time served) and 'made up sparks' (those who have proved themselves capable and done sufficient training and experience to be made worthy of the honoured 'Qualified Electrician' status.

Nuff said.