day from hell

[maselec]

Hello everyone I'm after a bit of advice (and a bit of a moan), yesterday was the day from hell. Having been up all night with my one year old girl (I ended up driving her around at 3am to get her to sleep), I was then woken by the alarm to find I had very painful toothache. These things are sent to try us so in the van I get for the day ahead. Get to the job, fitting a 9.5KW shower from scratch. I am met at the door by my customers Mum who seems pleasant enough. I crack on with the wiring while waiting for the plumber (subbyed to me) who turns up, turns off the water and turns on the kitchen and bath taps to drain the water. Then it all goes wrong. He cuts into the cold pipe under the bath and water starts gushing everywhere, rushing downstairs he checks the stoptap, sorts the problem and comes back upstairs telling me that the kitchen tap had been turned off by someone else. The customers Mum is adamant no-one has touched it. He gets his pipework in place and fits the shower and is on his way. Water is now coming out of the kitchen ceiling while I try to explain that it is not coming from the plumbing it is simply what has leaked and that I will come to an agreement when I have finished the job. Job finished, tested and certified. Power on, water now leaking out of the shower! (supplied by the customer) Power off, remove the cover to find a broken bracket which should be holding the water inlet in place. I show this to the Mum but she is clearly not listening, instead repeatedly saying she is 'not happy' so I pack up and ask her to tell her son to contact me. Later that evening I get a long text saying that they have had to get an emergency plumber, who has stated the job is unsafe and that they won't be paying me. Earlier in day I had offered to put right the kitchen ceiling AND fit a new shower for free as a good will gesture, yet the son has stated that any legal attempt from me to be paid will be met by a counterclaim for their expenses. I'm not willing to let this lie. There was no need for any plumber let alone an emergency one and the job was done perfectly. I have offered to pay for the kitchen ceiling to be put right (even though the plumber is insistent that the Mum closed the kitchen tap while he was draining the system) so I think I deserve paying. The shower was supplied by them and is not my problem, though again I offered to fit a new one for free (an offer now withdrawn). I understand that they don't want their kitchen flooded, neither would I but I have tried to do everything I can to rectify this. Any advice from anyone who's had similair problems is greatly received.

 

[revjames]

Whatever the case of someone turning the tap off in the kitchen, the plumber should have made sure the system was fully drained before cutting the pipe. What about the shower, was it faulty? I have had new ones out of the box that leaked. Sounds like they should have contacted you and your plumber and given you the opportunity to put things right before calling emergency plumbers out!

Annoying and costly, the plumber you used should foot the bill for the leak damage.

 

[Badger]

Whatever the case of someone turning the tap off in the kitchen, the plumber should have made sure the system was fully drained before cutting the pipe. What about the shower, was it faulty? I have had new ones out of the box that leaked. Sounds like they should have contacted you and your plumber and given you the opportunity to put things right before calling emergency plumbers out!Annoying and costly, the plumber you used should foot the bill for the leak damage.

i agree he should foot the emergency bill repair

 

[Andy™]

you should have been given a chance to fix the problem first - if they dont contact you and call an someone else to fix it, then you should not be responsible for the invoice for that. if you were contacted, but not able to contact the plumber, then the plumber should be responsible for the invoice

and if the shower they supplied is faulty, then you also have the right to charge for removal / isolation of the shower, and then again for installing the replacement one

 

[Andy™]

Whatever the case of someone turning the tap off in the kitchen, the plumber should have made sure the system was fully drained before cutting the pipe.

im guessing you have never done plumbing work then. its impossible to 'fully drain' the system. there will be pipes that still have water in that will then escape when the pipe is cut. its usually a small amount, but its also a good idea to have a small tub to collect the water

 

[wozz]

i would get in contact with the emergency plumber and find out exactly what he said. you are going off second hand information from a customer that is not happy to the accuracy of their information should not be trusted.

You deserve paying for your time and materials. The water damaged caused should be dealt with by plumber with you mediating. If you confirm from the emergency plumber that the shower is the faulty part and not the plumbing or the electrics you should be informing the customer of this and come to some resolution.

To be honest they may have been a bit miffed at the time to return home to water damage, no shower and a bill from another plumber but given a day and a good explanation they may come to realize this isnt your fault and come round a bit.

I had a problem with a customer and posted it on here for advice after months of working fine together we fell out over damage to a ceiling that was not our fault. After listening to the advice on here and acting on it all was resolved and they even wrote me really good feedback on google without me asking. So all is not lost yet.

 

[tom1]

draining down can be a pain in the arse, 9 out of 10 there is water in the system some were, flushing the toilet usualy chucks water out right were am working. ****** for soldering too. if loads of water pi##es out of the pipe nextime he might want to stick his finger over it a get bit wet and send someone else to the stop cock

who organised the job mate, did you put a price in and get a plumber, or was it a case of pay the plumber directly and you are responsible just for electric work.

if its the latter i would want payment and leave them to take it up with the plumber.

if your sorting the whole job then from customers point of view then i would say your responsible for the damages and its up to you to clame your loses from the plumber. in any case if they have paid someone else with out contacting you first then i agree with the others and say you should not have to pay.

 

[revjames]

[quote name='Andy

 

[Andy™]

Whats to stop the spark plumbing it in? sounds like in this case a better job would have been done!

nothing. plumbers want to be sparkys, so ill take their work and plumb in showers myself. and do other plumbing work.

 

[revjames]

TBH its fairly basic, find a cold mains pipe and tee into it, isolating valve and then straight into shower. Saves faffing about with plumbers. If you dont fancy soldering then compression or even push on joints available.

 

[tom1]

TBH its fairly basic, find a cold mains pipe and tee into it, isolating valve and then straight into shower. Saves faffing about with plumbers. If you dont fancy soldering then compression or even push on joints available.

+ a non return if its above a bath

 

[batty]

I agree with Andy on the not being able to drain totally it never happens but surely he should have been ready for this with a dust sheet or something to stop it going through the ceiling. As others have said it does seem a bit unfair what they have done surely they did not have a shower in the first place so they were no worse off in the evening unless it was leeking badly did you not isolate it ie water supply? I think you are going to have to stand any cost as the plumber was subying to you and if he is insured you will have to claim off his liability insurance. I take it you won't be using him again.

 

[Andy™]

just a quick warning to those who do the plumbing themselves - check your PLI to make sure it covers plumbing

 

[tom1]

[quote name='Andy

 

[Sidewinder]

Mine too!

You still need to be competent though.

 

[wozz]

has anyone actually ever claimed off pli insurance?

 

[Apache]

I crack on with the wiring while waiting for the plumber (subbyed to me)

If you pay the plumber then it's your responsibility to sort the ceiling mess and then claim it back off the plumber. This is what insurance is for - just let them get on with it.

Plumber sounds like a real numpty though!

 

[Manator]

From a legal stand point the customer can not refuse to pay any invoice, the involvement of any third party costs must be fully met by them if you gave notice that you would repair all damage at your own expense.

There is also a question of proof, from a third party involvement, the customer would require at least two or three independant assessments, for any court to judge in the customers favour.

It is now down to customer relations, I would think this occasion the customer has been unreasonable due to the involvement of the son who is now a barrack room lawyer. Any salvage you can do now is to your reputation, and I would say this job is one that you should walk away from, but with a covering letter stateing your commitment to remedy all faults at no extra costs.

The plumber you used is ultimately responsible, as with any electrical work there is a proper prescribed rotation of events to ensure safety and possible issues related to isolation.

I think the emergency plumber may be related, or a friend they drink with down the pub, often seen when non payments are involved.

You need contact with this plumber to assess what actions where taken and what charges where involved.

If you have done everything possible and maintained that all damages will be corrected, then take them to the small claims court and allow them to defend that claim, if they can. Its not your fault that the plumber made a big mistake, he is the one who should pay to put things right.

 

[a1spark]

Hi maselec , sorry to hear about your bad expereience , and all the advice about insurance and apportioning blame and small claims is all well and good ,but in the real world of domestic customers jobs .the best bet is forget it and move on no matter how much it hurts at the momemt,,,as soon as you left the job your chances of getting paid went out of the window...if its any consolation i think everyone has been there at one time...move on mate its the only way ,

 

[maselec]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the advice, the plumber subbied to me and I quoted for the job as a whole, I've known him a while and he is willing to let his bill go as I paid for materials he hasn't really lost much except a bit of fuel and his time. I've accepted responsibilty for the leak and was willing to pay for remedial work (which should only be a lick of paint anyway)

TBH I'd be quite happy to plumb in a shower the only issue I have is with draining the system, something I wasn't confident of, which is why I got the plumber in the first place!

I think I may send out a letter requesting the details of the emergency plumber and see what response I get. Now that I've calmed down a bit, it is in my head to chalk it up to experience but I'd be interested to see how far the customer will take this.

As far as the fault goes it was definatly the shower components that were leaking and was no where near any fittings or anything, there is no way it can be attributed to the plumber. Its a Triton and I think it can be bought for about