Disclaimer when changing fuse boards re faults

[jsa986]

I think there needs to be a definitive disclaimer for changing fuse boards with no rcd, for rcd protected versions. Im sure a lot of you have changed the old Wylex re-wirable wooden backed bad boys for a nice shiny high integrity version only, to have the RCD slam down the second its juiced up. The customer helpfully exclaiming "It didn't do that before"

Though it might be interesting to exchange ideas on what you guys put on any paperwork when changing fuse boards

 

[Zeespark]

Just do full IR/EFLI before you start, doing this would mean that problems like this are known about before the old board is replaced.

AndyGuinness

 

[MajorOak]

I always do a full PIR before I start as a matter of course, but this doesn't stop appliances creating a problem for you or borrowed neutrals in the upstairs downstairs lighting circuits, so you can't separate the upstairs and downstairs lighting onto two RCDs without a massive investigation under the floor boards!! I did one a year ago everything went to plan, just about to leave, she turns the cooker on bang, well it didn't do that before!! It was the spade connector on the cooker main switch, took an hour to find it, still an extra

 

[jsa986]

Just do full IR/EFLI before you start, doing this would mean that problems like this are known about before the old board is replaced.AndyGuinness

Really and how would that find borrowed neutrals? Also in the real world this is not always an option.

 

[Zeespark]

Do an IR test between the two light lines, that will find out if you have a shared neutral. You would need to dead test at some point, whether when you start or finish, so that argument doesn't entirely convince Me.

AndyGuinness

 

[jsa986]

Zeespark

All this erroneous testing before you even changed the fuse board?, you must charge a fortune for CU change if ur doing that. All this testing aside, as oak said, appliances will also trip and RCDs. This would have been not picked up before the CU change unless, you also go around pat testing before you change a CU? This of course in addition to your IR test between light Lines searching for shared neutrals and IR/EFLI that you advocate. So back to the original thread...rather than the pointless erudition please

 

[Zeespark]

If I test beforehand, I would only test live once finished, so horses for courses there. I would only test fixed wiring and state as much to the customer before testing/changing a board, so no PA Testing needed, IR testing if done globally takes a few minutes, and EFLI even less.

AndyGuinness

 

[jsa986]

cool ok duly noted

 

[ProDave]

As has been said before a global IR test is a minimum.

Best one I had was I did a CU change and all went well. Job done.

Next day customer phones to say can I come back and fit 1 socket that's not protected by an RCD. I enquire why. He says as soon as my wife plugs her iron in it trips, so I want a socket for that without an RCD.

I told him to buy her a new iron. :slap

 

[Zeespark]

If there was a fault on an appliance jas, I would charge extra to find and fix it.

AndyGuinness

 

[kme]

All this erroneous testing

Erroneous? Why would pre-testing be erroneous? I consider it basic common sense, to be honest.

before you even changed the fuse board?, you must charge a fortune for CU change if ur doing that.

You cover for the time you`re going to take - the amount of "extra" testing is minimal, as you already have most of the results needed.

Plus, ignoring RCDs for a moment. Suppose its commercial, surface wiring with only trained / experienced users (i.e. no RCD required) - but the ring circuit has a N-E short, or non-continuous ring. You`d KNOW about these things before you started, and be able to advise your customer accordingly, which surely looks more professional?

All this testing aside, as oak said, appliances will also trip and RCDs. This would have been not picked up before the CU change unless, you also go around pat testing before you change a CU? This of course in addition to your IR test between light Lines searching for shared neutrals and IR/EFLI that you advocate.

Unless you`ve specified appliance testing, why should you care about appliances?

So back to the original thread...rather than the pointless erudition please

pointless erudition? Not a necessary comment - you are being provided good advice. What you do with it is up to you.

KME

 

[m4tty]

How much do you charge for a board change jsa? And you don't test before changing really? I always test first to highlight problems and I'm in the real world.

 

[sellers]

If im honest I don't test before hand, I explain that no dangerous circuits can be reconnected and must be rectified and this may be extra, but that i also allow 1.5hrs fault finding in my price.

Personally If someone is aware that an existing fault will trip their RCD then some people wont bother with a new board. My view is the existing fault is more safe with rcd protection, also, once the boards in and changed and I tell them I can't power up the sockets due to the fault, it gets sorted, rather than leaving it to cook for another 15years on a re-wirable.

 

[NozSpark]

I'm pretty similar to Sellers to be honest...

Some people don't like this approach though and want an absolutley nailed down fixed price.

And... Powering up without carrying out testing,,, you naughty boy

 

[Doc Hudson]

Really and how would that find borrowed neutrals? Also in the real world this is not always an option.

Borrowed neutrals is only one of a number of problems that can cause an RCD to trip. Wiring regs require basic testing of bonding and the condition of the installation to be verified prior to carrying out any alteration. The electrical safety councils best practice guide recommends a PIR prior to a CU change. I can only assume that you are getting a lot of these sort of problems due to your idea of a disclaimer. Possibly best to do more rigorous tests and checks and charge an appropriate rate accordingly. Some quite basic continuity tests can identify if two circuits are sharing the same neutral. These can be dome whilst doing IR tests on the cables.

Doc H.

 

[nsbs]

I always do some basic tests but not a full PIR, but enough to establish borrowed neutrals, incomplete rings, I also do some Zs at sockets + R2 tests at lights, Ze and check bonding etc. It does not take all that long, and I always explain to the customer what I am doing and why, it also gets me loads of brownie points.

Ian

 

[steptoe]

yep, as a minimum I do a very basic test involving, IR, continuity, and some random Zs,

has always worked fine for me,

simply explain to customer the extent of the testing and what may happen afterwards.