Do I need a new consumer unit?

[iamds]

Hi, I'm wondering is someone would be able to help me...

I'm currently getting a loft extension done, I've been told conflicting information and I was wondering if someone here would be able to clarify for me.

I've been told by some loft extension companies that my consumer unit is suitable for my loft extension.

But the electrician fitting my loft extension has told me that I need a new consumer unit with surge protection for the hard wired smoke alarms.

Here is a photo of the current consumer unit I have: https://photos.app.goo.gl/JVa8YDP5Mc4Ywpvj7

Would someone be able to tell me whether I do indeed need a new consumer unit with surge protection?

Thanks
Dan

 

[Fleeting]

Just get them to do a disclaimer stating you have refused the fitting of surge protection devices for you to sign.

 

[Andy™]

you don't need a new one. SPD could be fitted externally to the board if you wanted it fitted

think you need a better electrician

 

[Murdoch]

you are getting very dubious advice.

your consumet unit appears to have RCD for some circuits and the remaining ones are RCBOs

smoke alarms could be battery powered, so I don’t understand the “link” of must have rcd protection for smokes

the only time SPD‘s have to be installed is if the consumer unit is being replaced in a domestic property.

 

[binky]

you are getting very dubious advice.

your consumet unit appears to have RCD for some circuits and the remaining ones are RCBOs

smoke alarms could be battery powered, so I don’t understand the “link” of must have rcd protection for smokes

the only time SPD‘s have to be installed is if the consumer unit is being replaced in a domestic property.

RCD shared with several ccts and RCBOs for the rest. Looks like an upgraded 16th edition board.

 

[binky]

Hi, I'm wondering is someone would be able to help me...

I'm currently getting a loft extension done, I've been told conflicting information and I was wondering if someone here would be able to clarify for me.

I've been told by some loft extension companies that my consumer unit is suitable for my loft extension.

But the electrician fitting my loft extension has told me that I need a new consumer unit with surge protection for the hard wired smoke alarms.

Here is a photo of the current consumer unit I have: https://photos.app.goo.gl/JVa8YDP5Mc4Ywpvj7

Would someone be able to tell me whether I do indeed need a new consumer unit with surge protection?

Thanks
Dan

You have spare ways in the board so shouldn't be any bother to add a couple of new circuits with RCBOs. SPD, not a bad idea but not compulsory, and certainly not compulsory for smokes.

 

[Murdoch]

RCD shared with several ccts and RCBOs for the rest. Looks like an upgraded 16th edition board.

yup. A decent set up

 

[kerching]

Ask him to show you the actual Regulations that state you HAVE to have/do what he says

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi, I'm wondering is someone would be able to help me...

I'm currently getting a loft extension done, I've been told conflicting information and I was wondering if someone here would be able to clarify for me.

I've been told by some loft extension companies that my consumer unit is suitable for my loft extension.

But the electrician fitting my loft extension has told me that I need a new consumer unit with surge protection for the hard wired smoke alarms.

Here is a photo of the current consumer unit I have: https://photos.app.goo.gl/JVa8YDP5Mc4Ywpvj7

Would someone be able to tell me whether I do indeed need a new consumer unit with surge protection?

Thanks
Dan

There is NO wiring regulation stating that a domestic smoke alarm circuit MUST have surge protection fitted.

There is NO wiring regulation stating that a new consumer unit must be fitted if you do want to install a surge protection device.

If you decided that you would like to have a surge protection device fitted, a device suitable for a single phase domestic installation could be purchased and installed in a suitable enclosure adjacent to the existing consumer unit. e.g. https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-...ka/587jh#product_additional_details_container (less than £30).

As others have mentioned, (assuming the wiring is all electrically safe), there is no valid reason to assume that your existing consumer unit is not perfectly satisfactory for further use. And it presents NO immediate danger or hazard to your proposed alterations / additions.

And ask your electrician to quote which wiring regulation they consider is applicable to endorse the need for SPD and new CU for the smoke alarms?

If they are struggling to answer offer help such as:-
Current wiring regulations are BS7671:2018 ammendment2:2022.
Surge protection regulations will start with a three digit number followed by one or two other numbers e.g. 443.x.y.
And suggest they may want to start start reading from page 106 onward?
Or "On-Site-Guide" page 42 onward...
Maybe even use the SPD decision flow from Page 44 On-Site-Guide?

However it could be worth while getting a comprehensive inspection & test of the whole installation done,
As the sticker on your consumer unit suggests it was due 2019?

 

[mort2376]

From Amd 2 surge protection is required if any 1 of 4 conditions apply.

The most common one is if there if a safety circuit present. This covers smoke alarms. Therefore if the company is installing additional units to an existing circuit, or installing a new circuit they must bring that circuit inline with BS7671 amd2 2022.

You are now no longer able to get a written disclaimer that a customer does not want it fitted if any of the conditions are present.

https://electrical-assistance.co.uk/spd-regulations-guide-18th-edition/

 

[Sharpend]

Do smokes come under it even if they have a battery back up?

 

[binky]

Do smokes come under it even if they have a battery back up?

I would not consider smokes as a safety cct personally. I think that's more applicable to something like essential medical gear, like an oxygen machine.

Smokes should of course be installed to a lighting cct

 

[UNG]

From Amd 2 surge protection is required if any 1 of 4 conditions apply.

The most common one is if there if a safety circuit present. This covers smoke alarms. Therefore if the company is installing additional units to an existing circuit, or installing a new circuit they must bring that circuit inline with BS7671 amd2 2022.

You are now no longer able to get a written disclaimer that a customer does not want it fitted if any of the conditions are present.

https://electrical-assistance.co.uk/spd-regulations-guide-18th-edition/

The May 2023 corrigendum removed the requirement on the principal it was better to have a smoke detector than not have one due to the cost of the SPD requirement

Press release here https://www.theiet.org/media/press-...gendum-to-bs-76712018-iet-wiring-regulations/

The corrigendum can be found here https://electrical.theiet.org/wirin...23/corrigendum-2023-to-bs-76712018plusa22022/

 

[mort2376]

I stand corrected.

 

[Murdoch]

The May 2023 corrigendum removed the requirement on the principal it was better to have a smoke detector than not have one due to the cost of the SPD requirement

Press release here https://www.theiet.org/media/press-...gendum-to-bs-76712018-iet-wiring-regulations/

The corrigendum can be found here https://electrical.theiet.org/wirin...23/corrigendum-2023-to-bs-76712018plusa22022/

Thanks for that clarification.

Why, why , why can't the muppets who put the book together actually proof read it and correct it before its published.

There's no wonder so many people can't keep up to date ......... and then there are the poor unsuspecting customers

 

[mort2376]

I still think for the small cost it's worth having it as the insurance company can't say your not covered when they are trying to avoid paying out for a lightning strike !

 

[Murdoch]

I still think for the small cost it's worth having it as the insurance company can't say your not covered when they are trying to avoid paying out for a lightning strike !

Not sure that argument holds any water

Over 99% of homes, if not more don’t have SPD’s

 

[mort2376]

True,but they will have slipper something in in the small print that no one reads that means your not covered without one.

Any excuse not to pay out.

 

[UNG]

I stand corrected.

To be fair I was at a couple of AICO events in the last few months and there has been a question posted on their installer community about SPD's as well add to that the number of webinar emails I get daily the corrigendum being one I did have a bit of a heads up.

The fact is that in order to get past the BS testing the Aico detectors are and I assume those of other manufacturers are tested to withstand surges

A recent comment from Aico on their installer community
Our alarms are tested to the smoke alarm standard EN14604, which in turn specifies EN50130-4:1995 for EMC performance. This standard specifies units are to be tested with fast transient bursts of +/-2kV, and slow high energy surges of +/-0.5kV and 1kV.

I think some of the problem is the corrigendum has been dismissed as a spell check update when the reality is it has tinkered with the regs without it being an amendment

 

[binky]

I still think for the small cost it's worth having it as the insurance company can't say your not covered when they are trying to avoid paying out for a lightning strike !

If you've ever seen what a lightning strike does to a house, I seriously doubt a SPD will help much