domestic installer

[Evans Electric]

NICEIC get better recognition from the likes of local authorities and insurance companies etc.

Thats very true,as I know to my cost.

Deke

 

[ianmacd]

Thats very true,as I know to my cost.Deke

??

 

[green-hornet]

??

He has lost work because they wanted NICEIC.

I think the tides are changing on this, the NICEIC would appear to be resting on their laurals of late and are quickly being overtaken by other scheme providers who invest more time to installers and approved electricians and are more vigorous in their advertisements.

I am with the NICEIC.

 

[ianmacd]

I got that but I was looking for some more info. For example ELECSA have someone who will re-educate people about that discrimination.

Ian.

 

[Apache]

I got that but I was looking for some more info. For example ELECSA have someone who will re-educate people about that discrimination.
Ian.

Applaud SmileyApplaud SmileyApplaud SmileyApplaud Smiley

Love it Ian

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I got that but I was looking for some more info. For example ELECSA have someone who will re-educate people about that discrimination.Ian.

?:|

I think you will find its customer choice, free market.. any person or business requesting work can decide on who they want and any specify any attributes relating to that business or individual that they wish.

BASIC RULE OF BUSINESS:-

one business or individual selects another business or individual, with a FREE choice, to carry out supply of some goods or service. It is the person paying, i.e. buying the goods or service who makes the choice.. Not the person selling the goods or service!

That "discrimination" statement is about as logical or sensible as saying Tesco's have got someone to re-educate my wife because she prefers to shop at "Salisbury's".

OR "Vodaphone" trying to re-educate people who prefer to get their phone service from "O2".

:|

 

[Apache]

That "discrimination" statement is about as logical or sensible as saying Tesco's have got someone to re-educate my wife because she prefers to shop at "Salisbury's".OR "Vodaphone" trying to re-educate people who prefer to get their phone service from "O2".

:|

Not sure Specs - the advertising (direct and subliminal) is subconsciously trying to re-educate us.

If a nice lady at ELECSA wants to inform companies how there are a number of scheme providers that is allowing the customer to make a free choice.

If you don't know there's a new Tesco in your town you can't freely choose to shop there?

It is ultimately up to the customer, based on their own perception and prejudice where they spend there money, but they need to be as fully informed about the options as possible

IMO

 

[NWDS]

Elecsa for me cheaper and easier to talk to, they talk to you and understand that we all have to start some were.

NWDS

 

[Andy™]

but the difference there specs is your wife knows there are many places to shop and she goes where she chooses... many people who say you must be NIC only dont know anyone else actually exists, so once they are informed that there is more to electrical than the know-it-all-with-own-version-of-regs-NIC, they usually allow for other

 

[Evans Electric]

??

The Hornet is right . The insurers of a long term customer ( Print firm) will not accept a PIR from me on the premises I have 80% rewired over the last 15 years , will only accept NICEIC and no one else.

Had the same with Solihull Council on a domestic job, we only accept NICEIC Contractors, ended up having to email the certificate that ELECSA issue which solved the problem.

Deke

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Not sure Specs - the advertising (direct and subliminal) is subconsciously trying to re-educate us.Agreed advertising can be considered a form of education but another person NOT advertising is NOT discrimination!?

If a nice lady at ELECSA wants to inform companies how there are a number of scheme providers that is allowing the customer to make a free choice.

If you don't know there's a new Tesco in your town you can't freely choose to shop there?

Your choice is still free whether you know of NO options, ALL the options, Just some of the options.

We are in a free country with free access to all sorts of research, business locater, trade finding material

IF you were FORCED to only use one, and you were barred for looking or researching any other options,

and other business were banned from advertising then there would be a distinct lack of free choice.

But that is most certainly NOT the case in this country even with electrical work.

It is ultimately up to the customer, based on their own perception and prejudice where they spend there money, but they need to be as fully informed about the options as possible.

and who says that ALL of these persons haven't made an informed free choice?

Most of these electrical trades bodies have been in existence for many years and choose their advertising and promotion as they see fit!

IMO

Surely your not telling me that only NICEIC contractors are allowed to advertise in your local yellow pages or Internet search websites?

It would appear that some electricians are assuming that someone who says they prefer one body (e.g. NICEIC) has been barred from picking up the yellow pages and seeing other options are there?

Or someone who prefers a Fluke (and only wants a new fluke) has been barred from considering a Megger?

Or that someone who prefers Sainsbury's has been forced to never see a competitor supermarkets advert?

Some people/business/organisations do select another trades person to supply some goods or services because they actually are very happy with the standard of work, reliability, quality and value for money they get from that business/organisation/trader etc...

The customers choice is STILL free in this country!

The businesses choice to advertise & promote their business is also STILL free!

So the choice is NOT discriminated and unless you actually don't believe the above two facts, Ian's statement

"For example ELECSA have someone who will re-educate people about that discrimination".

is clearly not valid.Is it Discrimination NO!

but..

ELESCA trying to promote and advertise their service more YES, perfectly reasonable business activity!

:|

 

[ianmacd]

The Hornet is right . The insurers of a long term customer ( Print firm) will not accept a PIR from me on the premises I have 80% rewired over the last 15 years , will only accept NICEIC and no one else. Had the same with Solihull Council on a domestic job, we only accept NICEIC Contractors, ended up having to email the certificate that ELECSA issue which solved the problem.

Deke

Have you set that nice lady at elecsa on them yet?

 

[Subneural]

I'm with Napit, Found them helpful and accomodating.

You do need to get 2391 within one year of joining which means a course at night school or a week off work - hence why I'll be having to swap providers later this year

(local college cancelled the course earlier this year due to lack of interest and I'm not in a position to write a week off the calender at the moment as its that quiet I need to take the money when its available)

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

but the difference there specs is your wife knows there are many places to shop and she goes where she chooses... many people who say you must be NIC only dont know anyone else actually exists,

Bit of a contradictory argument there Andy!

How does anyone know the other supermarkets exists..

e.g. before Lidl Aldi or Morrison's were as common as they are now???

Bog standard advertising media / word-of mouth / personal preference / Trade press etc.. its EXACTLY the same with electrical work.

e.g. the same way many business procurement staff,

or personal individuals find out about supply of any goods or services..

How is it that 'these customers' only have heard of NICEIC?

do they only get personal NIC mail shots and all other normal advertising media banned from their access?

Or could it just be that one body has done more advertising, or built a better reputation than other competitor bodies..

Even though some of their competitors have been going longer?

These are BASIC RULES OF BUSINESS my friend, anyone who thinks other wise is showing a naive approach to running a business. Which unfortunately still seems to be an element with many electrical contractors about how the real big world of business works.

For some strange reason people think because the word Electricity/Electrician or Electrical is in a job spec, suddenly people loose the ability to look and search who and what choice is out there... and the magic advertising fairy has NOT prevented any business or organisation from promoting their products and services,

If I choose not to advertise... I cannot moan saying I dont get many enquiry's for work.

Or if I dont meet a particular prospective customer requirements I cannot insist they must give me their money and let me do the work.

And if I have done a real good job for a customer and they are very happy with what I do,

I am not going to moan if when their next job comes up and they just say,

I only want you to do the job, even without a quote... or should I be saying...

oh er no Mr customer.. there are other electricians out there.. you better give them a go as well?

don't think so somehow!

IMHO its quite a large assumption that people don't know other bodies exist!?

If anybody goes and opens up their local Yellow Pages, looks at the Electrical/electricians section..

They will find loads of contractors and most of the approved bodies logos present at some point on the various adverts.

so once they are informed that there is more to electrical than the know-it-all-with-own-version-of-regs-NIC' date=' they usually allow for other[/quote']

Interesting statement.. unsubstantiated without any example or reference or back up.....

That does unfortunately sound very much like a 'sour grapes statement' ?

I would be very interested to hear of these different regs? cuz IMHO they do appear to use BS7671Blushing

We all make our free choice which approved bodies to go with..

Or not as the case may be, based on our knowledge of who it is & what we get for our money and what the competition are offering.

And ALL of the approved bodies will have their self cert EIC's & compliance certs recognised by the relevant LABC for compliance with PART-P. with NO discrimination, (as they are legally obliged to do).

BUT at the end of the day......

That still doesn't stop the customer pickin who they want to actually do the work in the first place. and preferring one contractor body over another body.

 

[batty]

I think things will change when NICEIC are enroling sparks like worker ants you are going to get bad ones. I have seen some of the work they do and it has a lot to be desired. Times are a changing.

Batty

 

[green-hornet]

I think things will change when NICEIC are enroling sparks like worker ants you are going to get bad ones. I have seen some of the work they do and it has a lot to be desired. Times are a changing.Batty

I think you are right, but you get good and bad in all trades.

One thing I have learned is whichever scheme you belong to at least users of this forum are not afraid to ask for help, I know some of my working practises have been improved, and I have read more of the regulations since becomming a member of this forum.

I am sure changes to the whole system will be made in the near future.