EIC Certificate

[Geffers]

Hi Guys, went to see a job where a flat above the shop has its own C/U The shop has had 2 x meters put in for shop & flat. New Isolator & meter tails required to feed the flat C/U as it was chopped off by DNO. Question is when i put new isolator in & reconnect the supply Tails to flat C/U do i have to issue an EIC for flat circuit or just the supply from meter to new isolator?

 

[Doc Hudson]

Do you mean the flat CU is currently disconnected with no power to it? If re-energising an existing dead CU I would think you need to fully test circuits before putting power back on.

Doc H.

 

[Badger]

Do you mean the flat CU is currently disconnected with no power to it? If re-energising an existing dead CU I would think you need to fully test circuits before putting power back on.Doc H.

+1 ^^

 

[Geffers]

yes it is diconnected & has no power. I have already done the dead tests everything seems to be ok the flat was rewired 2 x years ago no details of any test results from then. So once energised does it require an EICon the flat circuit? If so do i have to then do a seperate EIC for the connections in the shop part?

 

[ProDave]

One has to ask why it was disconnected? There's usually more to the story than you are being told by the customer.

I rewired an old cottage that had been empty for a while and the DNO had disconnected it because the installation was unsafe.

When the DNO came to re connect the supply, he was very not amused to find the supply had already been re energised.

It turns out somebody had fitted a new septic tank (prior to selling the property) that needed a pumping system, so in order to test the pump he had fitted, he re inserted a fuse into the cut out.

To this day I don't think the DNO guy believed me when I said it was not me that put the fuse back in.

 

[Geffers]

sorry badger it may be me, but what is it you are trying to tell me?

 

[sparky b]

sorry badger it may be me, but what is it you are trying to tell me?

He agrees with the post above his...

 

[Geffers]

It was disconnected (by the DNO guys) as the isolators (landlords switches so they can cut the power in case of squatters/nonpayments etc) were old & obselete. They were feeding 10mm2 FT/E up to the CU with a 50A mcb as the protective device. Anyway getting bogged down with the question. "Lets assume" everthing is ok how many certs do i need to issue? & yes i am aware that a PIR will also have to be done. This is why i am asking as the PIR will have most of the info required by an EIC - phew! gonna make a brew while you get your heads round it.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:28 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:18 ----------

ok forget brew gonna go for a pint instead so here is the difinitive question. I will connect from meter to isolator. This is then 1 x circuit change do i need an EIC? lets call this circuit #1 - I then turn on the isolator thus energising the CU at the flat. Lets call this circuit #2 No changes have been made to circuit #2 & it appears to be ok. As i have not made any alterations to #2 do i need to issue an EIC? definitley a pint so i may be some time! (captain Oakes 1912)

 

[philbas]

I'm sure someone will corrrect me if this is wrong, and it may be, but

Not only do you NOT have to issue an EIC for the circuits in the flat you CAN'T, you did not install them, you can't sign off someone elses work. You can only issue an EIC for circuits you installed.

 

[steptoe]

not exactly philbas,

geffers, are you 'changing' anything.?

no?

are you simply terminating ?

yes?

then I would think a PIR,

but, you have stated DNO disconnected as the submains were inadequate,

so what is different now?

have you changed them, has someone else?

an EIC is deffo need for that material change,

and it will be required for the whole install, just as in a CU change, if you alter a submain/CU you are changing everything downstream as well so it all has to be tested, you simply note the exact work you have done and exempt what you havent be default.

 

[fletchflash]

I would defo issue a cert for this, probably an EIC. Your not signing off some elses work, you're only signing off your work which would be outlined on the test cert. Its the same as a CU change in theory. Your not signing off some elses work when you do an EIC for board change onto existing wiring.

You need to issue a cert with results for all circuits which would be affected by your work, energising circuits without having recorded results and knowing its safe is not a good idea, like said before why has it been disconnected?

I would treat it like a board change and do an EIC

beaten to it by steptoe!

 

[steptoe]

I would defo issue a cert for this, probably an EIC. Your not signing off some elses work, you're only signing off your work which would be outlined on the test cert. Its the same as a CU change in theory. Your not signing off some elses work when you do an EIC for board change onto existing wiring.You need to issue a cert with results for all circuits which would be affected by your work, energising circuits without having recorded results and knowing its safe is not a good idea, like said before why has it been disconnected?

I would treat it like a board change and do an EIC

beaten to it by steptoe!

:Salute

 

[Geffers]

OK had me beer & the minds been ticking over, so get your teeth around this. Circuit #1 is in a shop - commercial premises - not notifiable under part P? Although circuit # 2 maybe/couldbe ! Conundram or what!!

 

[fletchflash]

if the shop is on a seperate meter then treat it as 2 seperate installations. Your only working on the top flat so only cert that. If you did work at a flat in a block with 20 meters in a cupboard youy wouldnt certify all 19 other flats because the one youve worked in shares the same supply

Shop- non notifiable

Flat/ Dwelling- notifiable

 

[philbas]

You cant cert the flat, you can PIR it, but unless you did the work how can you tell it conforms, are all the cables in safe zones etc. You can only issue an EIC for work that you did.

 

[fletchflash]

You can cert the flat!

philbas what cert do you issue on a CU change?

You'd be issuing a cert for the work you did only, the connection of a new supply, but all circuits affected by this would have to be included on the cert. As said early your altering everything 'downstream', its a major alteration.

This doesnt mean by including them on an EIC your signing that you installed all these circuits and that all circuits comply with regards to safe zones, modifications to building etc.

However you would be signing that the alteration, the part you installed, did comply. (if they did!)

 

[andy_spark]

You cant cert the flat, you can PIR it, but unless you did the work how can you tell it conforms, are all the cables in safe zones etc. You can only issue an EIC for work that you did.

What would happen if you changed the CU phil? It would be an EIC not PIR in that instance, which is essentially the same thing as you are suggesting as you won't have installed cables in zones etc.

How many people have certified a CU change knowing exactly where all the cables are going? Probably not many but the forms are still filled in and the board changed. Come to think of it how many PIRs are completed without finding out cable routes? Probably nearly all of them

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

You cant cert the flat, you can PIR it, but unless you did the work how can you tell it conforms, are all the cables in safe zones etc. You can only issue an EIC for work that you did.

You can write a certificate for anything that you want..

you just use the box that says..

"Extent of the installation covered by this certificate"

And add a little comment 'hidden and concealed cable routes not verified'

If reenergising a full installation I personally would want to test EVERY accessory and OUTLET as if it were a new installation..

Obviously I couldn't see the cable routes but all visible bits could be thoroughly inspected and tested!!!

Then issue an EIC in a similar manner to when doing a CU change where I didn't install the whole installation!

Simples!

I wouldn't be looking at a PIR with just a "Sample" of outlets tested.

 

[philbas]

No you can't

EIC stands for Electrical Installation Certificate, did you install the wireing in th flat ?, if not you cant issue an EIC for it.

You can issue an EIC for the bit you did, but it doesnt cover the rest of the circuits, and make that clear on the EIC you issue.

 

[fletchflash]

You can issue an EIC for the bit you did, but it doesnt cover the rest of the circuits, and make that clear on the EIC you issue.

Thats kinda whats been said...