Eicr Rubber Cable

[steptoe]

Dear Steptoe,

What is meant by 'OK ish' for IR test?  Did they comply or not?  More to the point, what would you have done if there was a N/E fault or the insulation was found to have fallen from the conductors of the lead covered circuits?

Why would you not put them on an RCD if they were compliant? 

It seems that you carried out a Zs without first proving R1+R2 (polarity) as you say you didn't disconnect or move them.  Unless you used the long-lead method as a minimum you would have had to at least put a link from the protective device to the earth terminal.

If it was a 'staged job' I would have thought that a preliminary inspection would have given these lead circuits a little priority.  I take it that a EICR was not carried out prior the job starting?

Just a thought

Hello Zimmy,

I was only contracted to remove existing wiring to one room, and install a new cooker circuit,

and rewire to a new CU of adequate size to rewire the rest of the house to in the future,

I didnt do an EICR in this case as I already knew that only the newly installed circuits [socket radial and 1 light] would be going on the RCD,

all other circuits were untouched.

as it happens, the existing circuits were wired in a spur off the ring fashion, a ring had been wired round the house with each socket spurred off it via a JB,

I didnt do any tests on the existing wiring apart from an IR  1.2meg, and a Zs 1.13 , simply for my own inquisitiveness, and to be happy about leaving it energised, even though it was nothing to do with me.

obviously the IR is very low, hence the OK-ish remark.

I personally wouldnt even consider moving an old lead sheath cable that is expected to be put back into service, I think that is just asking for trouble.

ps, every circuit in the house is lead almost, apart from a few bodge ons that are a mix of VIR etc.

 

[Steve3948]

1.2Meg is also very clear, remember 0.5Meg was acceptable once upon a time.

The trouble with todays meters is we get obsessed with numbers, 1.2Meg is no worse than 500Meg in reality.

 

[steptoe]

1.2Meg is also very clear, remember 0.5Meg was acceptable once upon a time.

The trouble with todays meters is we get obsessed with numbers, 1.2Meg is no worse than 500Meg in reality.

yes,

I do agree,

perfectly fine for continued use,

but, obviously in todays world it requires further investigation,

NO it doesnt,! its simply old lead sheath cable,.

[ thats why I put OKish, in expectance of someone pulling me on the <2meg thing ]

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Not sure about every single test meter, but mine will not let me carry out any loop tests if the polarity is wrong .

 

[zimmy]

I think you're right there Slips. As far as I know all EFLI meters are like that... incorrect polarity and no-go.   

 

[Andy™]

Not sure about every single test meter, but mine will not let me carry out any loop tests if the polarity is wrong .

only on a 3 lead test. otherwise how would it know polarity is wrong?

 

[zimmy]

Think about that for a while Andy GuinnessA 2-lead unit won't work with incorrect polarity...as it uses the N lead to run the machines innards and needs the right bits in the right place.  The 3-lead unit uses the 3 leads only id on sort test with RCDs to saturate the core... but on hard test it's best to put E and N leads together.  Best to read the instructions

Know the kit before use.

Z

 

[Andy™]

a 2 lead test doesnt require a N (hence the '2 lead' bit). it only last L&E. think about it, genius. and even if it does connect N&E internally, it still wouldnt know its got wrong polarity. maybe you should read the instructions, or at least go back to thinking of the basics

 

[ProDave]

Think about that for a while Andy A 2-lead unit won't work with incorrect polarity..

Please explain how a 2 lead unit would even know it was reverse polarity.

 

[Sidewinder]

I've just gone out the garage to get another beer, via the van as it is outside the garage, and picked up my LTW425 2 wire non tripping loop tester.

Did a quick loop on an accessible socket, non trip as I did not want the power going off.

I can confirm, that the LTW425 does not care which socket the L & E go into, it will do the test regardless & give the same results.

It only has 2 leads to refer to, thus I can't see how it can decide which is L & E, it is simply taking a measurement between the two.

A 3 lead tester would however, I believe expect that the N & E connections would be at substantially the same potential.

Hence one of the common error codes with the Fluke 17xx series testers.

 

[zimmy]

We live and learn.  So why use different colour leads then?  This is the way that my Robin works (as far as I can tell)

 

[zimmy]

A I understand it...

A 2-probe unit: The Line probe goes to the 'Line' conductor.  The return N for the unit goes internally to the other probe and thus runs the switching mechanism of the unit via the E path (if any) The switch is made and the currents now passes from phase to the N/E probe that is now connecter to earth .  If the E/N probe was on the Line conductor of the mains  the unit should show this to be incorrect?  As for being a genius...where did that come from?  Not that I give a **** to be honest. 

 

[Andy™]

think about it - if its only got 2 leads, it knows there is 230v between them, but how does it know which one is actually live. if its a 3 lead test then it has another reference point to distinguish which is live, although even that could be fooled if you put N&E probes on live & live on the earth (but it would trip the RCD if there is one)

 

[Phoenix]

Well it could rely on capacitance to free space if it really wanted to identify them... but that would be a 'anti-feature'

The LTW425 is also perfectly happy doing a loop measurement between two phases (it'll also work at 55v to earth on a CTE 110 system, which is beside the point, but a useful feature)

 

[Sidewinder]

I'll try my Robin seperate loop tester tomorrow and see what it does.