Electric storage heaters usage when switched off

[CharlesC]

Are the 4 units just being added over night?

Could be just background usage during the E7 time

Another reading taken at 5pm and the meters have increased since 2pm thus, 1, 1, 0 (day, heating, night).

 

[poni]

so you had 2 off E7 meters now you have one E7 meter, where do you get your reading from on your meter?, in my mind ( remember now I went to a school for the hard of thinking) all units used in the day will be at one rate and all units used at night will be another lower rate, so I don't know where you are getting the three meter readings from,

 

[poni]

is the heating and the night not the same ?
and from you old heating meter you did have day time usage,

 

[CharlesC]

so you had 2 off E7 meters now you have one E7 meter, where do you get your reading from on your meter?, in my mind ( remember now I went to a school for the hard of thinking) all units used in the day will be at one rate and all units used at night will be another lower rate, so I don't know where you are getting the three meter readings from,

Don't worry I'm with you on this. I asked the engineer if it was all OK and he said it'll do both. I don't recall asking him how to read the damn thing.

All I do is press the yellow button repeatedly, and it rotates through 4 readings. I know not what they all mean but with a little testing, I've come up with what I think is right, though it doesn't make sense. Even have a video of it.

Why would it be my fault they changed the meter and messed up my heating arrangements?

 

[CharlesC]

is the heating and the night not the same ?
and from you old heating meter you did have day time usage,

Heating and night never used to be the same. The old heating had day and night active sessions that were made active by a signal down the wire I think. It was the active signal that stopped working I think. The nearest tariff today I guess would be the Econ 10. My old tariff name was "Standard SC ROB", though they dumped me off that for some unknown reason - and I'm not sure they are/were allowed to.

 

[CharlesC]

is the heating and the night not the same ?
and from you old heating meter you did have day time usage,

As far as EON were concerned I do not have any storage heaters on the property, though when they looked at the back records they saw I did and they did not know where, or how my heating tariff had gone. Suffice to say EON have yet to do a damn thing to resolve the situation.

 

[poni]

the first press is the date the second is the all the display cells are ok and working, third is the total used, the forth is rate 1, fifth is rate 2, sixth is kvar and the last is the time
but I sit to be corrected,

 

[CharlesC]

the first press is the date the second is the all the display cells are ok and working, third is the total used, the forth is rate 1, fifth is rate 2, sixth is kvar and the last is the time
but I sit to be corrected,

Makes perfect sense to me but further puts the bill into question and what the hell they are doing with my heating, as it used to be heavily discounted. A right mess. The first figure they think is my night rate and the second my day rate.

 

[CharlesC]

What is kvar

 

[poni]

The KVAR is the power factor that measures how efficient and effective an appliance or gadget is. The higher the power factor number measured in KVAR the more efficient and the lower the power factor (KVAR) the less effectiveness and efficiency.

 

[CharlesC]

The KVAR is the power factor that measures how efficient and effective an appliance or gadget is. The higher the power factor number measured in KVAR the more efficient and the lower the power factor (KVAR) the less effectiveness and efficiency.

Still not much the wiser but I get the idea. It was 161 back in Feb 2022 and only goes up slowly and is 277 currently.

Thanks for your meter reading insight, as starting to make margin of sense now. EON have used the total figure as the night reading and the second (rate1) as the day reading.

My numbers match the Rate 1 and Rate 2 readings but which is day and night I'd query. When I did a kettle test at 9:10am Rate 2 moved. When I did a heating test during the day Rate 1 moved, so I can assume regardless of when the heating comes on, as it does so during the afternoon, as well as the early hours it gets logged on the Rate 1 meter. So my assumption is Rate 1 = Night and Rate 2 = day time.

I've been put on an E10 type tariff (though EON says E7) without my say-so when they changed the meter by the looks of things. Can they do this?

I used to have three rates. Day/Night and heat. Going back to Jan 2021 I had a unit price of heating at 16.74p, a day rate of 19.17p and a night rate of 10.49p. Before Putin stuck his oar in we were at Night: 17.37p and Day: 32.17p, so assuming our heating time heat is attributed to the night meter, we are OK, relatively, on the current tariff. EON just need to get their billing sorted.

 

[poni]

rate 1 and rate 2 should add up to the total, the Kvar ,is a thing of the past, you don't get charged for this, they used to in the past charge businesses this but i think they have stopped now,

you would need to asked Eon about the tariff charges, for the different rates,

 

[poni]

just looked on EON web page they don't do an E10 tariff any more, its all E7

 

[CharlesC]

just looked on EON web page they don't do an E10 tariff any more, its all E7

According to their website, "Usually you'll get 7 hours of off-peak electricity between 11pm and 8am. For example, 11pm - 6am or 1am - 8am."

Well, my system comes active mid to late afternoon, like a booster and then again in the early hours. It used to do this before the meter change and continues to do so now. Thus my assumption of E10. It also explains why they put an extra line in, as the heating has always worked during the day. Thus the single supply wasn't rated enough, as the heating would be on when we were in the shower, or otherwise using normal electricity, etc. When I tested the heating, it gained an afternoon boost and appeared to have placed that on the night meter even though it was during the afternoon. No wonder the meter fitter took all day to fit the meter and figure it out.

I'll also add I've always provided four meter readings since 1993 due to the way the heating worked, and thus, I recently presented the four numbers on this meter, as they matched my knowledge of what I'd been doing. EON should have easily corrected my understanding but decided to guess what I was doing and attribute the wrong reading to the wrong usage.

I've informed the Ombudsman of my findings which should hopefully help them with the case.

Anyway, thank guys, as I've learnt a lot and finally understand what's going on, and I have a sparky coming around to see about cleaning it all up and making it a bit safer. Just awaiting the Ombudsman and EON to catch up with this understanding. I thought NPower were bad, but EON has taken it to a whole new level

 

[johnb2713]

Just a thought to the more active experts on here, is it possible for the neutral to have been lost and the appliances running between 2 phases but in series with the heating appliances? I'm not sure of the wiring around these 2 phase / E7 timer type setups. Would that make both meters run? Just a thought?