Electrics and Internet help please

[Unifi2019]

So, I would like to know what any of you would do in this situation as I seem to be going round and round in circles. Any help/advice/assistance is very greatly appreciated. I have a diagram of the lay out but it doesn't appear I can upload any images.

Current problem/question

Trying to get Electrics to the Outbuilding (preferably from the Guest House Ring Main/Fuse Box) is this the best solution (coming from the Main House would require more uplifting of paving stones etc...., coming from the Guest House would mean just digging a trench which is possible)

Getting internet to the 3 buildings from 1 ISP (I understand ISP's don't like to share the internet, but the Guest House is where people come to stay when visiting us so this should be acceptable)

Current provider in Main House is BT

WiFi to Guest house via Netgear Range Extender (Only just picks up the signal even though positioning only 8metres away)

Solutions

1.       I have managed to move the BT Router to first floor corner bedroom, and using a WAP in the loft can achieve a signal inside the Guest House (but thinking of changing to Virgin for faster service, slightly cheaper, option to put Router into Bridge mode)

2.       Wifi signal reaches to where the Outbuilding will go with WAP in loft (but of course haven’t managed to test if it will breach the walls to internal)

3.       Cannot hard wire Ethernet from Main House to Guest House or Outbuilding as separate ring mains

4.       Could get Virgin service to either Guest House or Main House, but how to get the internet from then into Outbuilding

5.       Adding a Switch to the set up adds to the cost

6.       Current WiFi Access Point is a UAP-AC-LITE from Ubiquiti offering the most manageable options from the user, connected to a Security Gateway, connected to the BT Router

Outbuilding will have –

Smart TV / Apple TV

Wireless Printer

Office Laptop

Main house will have –

Sonos (1x Beam, 2x Play3, 3x Play1)

Smart TV

Apple TV

2x Macbooks

3x iPhones

Guest house will have –

Smart TV

Google Home Speaker (IoT)

2-4x max smart devices at any one time (Mix of Laptop, iPhone, iPad)

 

[Murdoch]

I'm not too sure what you are asking TBH

As for the electrics, adding load to a sub board isn't a great idea without some thought and calculations - and a site visit by a competent spark

Regarding the wifi / internet -  would look at running CAT 5 from the router if you want a reliable solution ............

 

[Unifi2019]

Hi @Murdoch, thanks for your reply. I guess you've nearly answered the question, first one is I thought it would be possible to run power from one of the main fuse boards (from either Guest House which has its' own ring main, or the Main house which again has its' own ring main) they are separate properties. So I imagined you could run armoured buried cabling from one of these to the Outbuilding to give power, installing the correct fuse boards etc.....

I am unable to lay Ethernet cabling as mentioned above, because the internet is in the main house, yet we would prefer to run the mains electrics from the Guest House Ring Main as the digging to lay the cable from the Main house is a lot more work and cost. Plus I've been advised you cannot run Cat5/6 cabling from one property on one ring main, to another property on a separate ring main due to Earthing/Grounding issues, and would cause issues/fire risk from lightning strikes.

So wondered if anyone had any other solutions that I may not have thought of. But for sure, once I understand a bit more from the experience that this forum has, I will be hiring a qualified electrician to carry out the work.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[binky]

BT are offering guranteed wifi upgrade to whole properrties - worth a look.

Failing that try Ethernet over Power adaptors - put 1 by Router and other outside in guest house. Range is upto 300m over power cables but gets reduced when trying to through Consumer unit. These gadgets used to be lettuced, but have vastly improved and aren't that expensive.

https://www.ebuyer.com/882093-tp-link-av600-powerline-universal-wi-fi-range-extender-2-ethernet-ports-tl-wpa4220-tkitv4-0

 

[Doc Hudson]

 Range is upto 300m over power cables but gets reduced when trying to through Consumer unit.

Un-scientific but my gut instinct is going through RCD's can cause serious signal deterioration. Tested some on a job with Dual RCD board, D/S ring and U/S ring both fed via different RCD's But also an old Immersion heater, radial circuit upstairs shared the down stairs RCD supply. Router + 1 adaptor connected to D/S ring,  two sockets in same upstairs bedroom, (physical distance near identical), trying second adaptor in the U/S ring sockets was basically unusable, either too slow or kept dropping out. Whereas, in the old Imm Heat radial socket it gave a connection that was functional. The only thing I could put it down to was the extra bit of the circuits passing through the RCD's ?

Doc H.

 

[binky]

they wouldn't work at all through multiple ccts about 10  years ago, but it's an option.? Can be used in conjunction with Wifi boosters with ethernet ports - so wifi to some socket on same cct ethrnet cable between gadgets than EoP to outside builing - NB this is based on somone telling me this, but I haven't tried it. 

 

[Doc Hudson]

Hi @Murdoch, thanks for your reply. I guess you've nearly answered the question, first one is I thought it would be possible to run power from one of the main fuse boards (from either Guest House which has its' own ring main, or the Main house which again has its' own ring main) they are separate properties. So I imagined you could run armoured buried cabling from one of these to the Outbuilding to give power, installing the correct fuse boards etc.....

That question is so vague  and open ending it is impossible to answer. Without knowing the full characteristics and loading on the current installation and circuits I doubt anyone here could answer anything. If I asked how many boxes can I put on shelves in my garage? we'd have to start checking; how many shelves are there, how long, how deep, what size wall brackets & fixings, how heavy and how big are the boxes?  Similar cable loading issues must be considered when designing new or extending existing circuits.  You need to get someone to come and do a site visit in my opinion.

Doc H

 

[Murdoch]

Hi @Murdoch, thanks for your reply. I guess you've nearly answered the question, first one is I thought it would be possible to run power from one of the main fuse boards (from either Guest House which has its' own ring main, or the Main house which again has its' own ring main) they are separate properties. So I imagined you could run armoured buried cabling from one of these to the Outbuilding to give power, installing the correct fuse boards etc.....

I am unable to lay Ethernet cabling as mentioned above, because the internet is in the main house, yet we would prefer to run the mains electrics from the Guest House Ring Main as the digging to lay the cable from the Main house is a lot more work and cost. Plus I've been advised you cannot run Cat5/6 cabling from one property on one ring main, to another property on a separate ring main due to Earthing/Grounding issues, and would cause issues/fire risk from lightning strikes.

So wondered if anyone had any other solutions that I may not have thought of. But for sure, once I understand a bit more from the experience that this forum has, I will be hiring a qualified electrician to carry out the work.

Thanks again for your help.

Not sure I agree with this .....

You need a competent spark to advise you ............. not just to do what you think may be possible from internet searches......

 

[Bruspark]

Un-scientific but my gut instinct is going through RCD's can cause serious signal deterioration. Tested some on a job with Dual RCD board, D/S ring and U/S ring both fed via different RCD's But also an old Immersion heater, radial circuit upstairs shared the down stairs RCD supply. Router + 1 adaptor connected to D/S ring,  two sockets in same upstairs bedroom, (physical distance near identical), trying second adaptor in the U/S ring sockets was basically unusable, either too slow or kept dropping out. Whereas, in the old Imm Heat radial socket it gave a connection that was functional. The only thing I could put it down to was the extra bit of the circuits passing through the RCD's ?

Doc H.

Second this. 

Converted old MCB board to all RCBO.  Powerlines that used to work everywhere worked as well on the same ring as the Router but poorer results linking to adaptors on other rings.  The RCBO transformer looks a lot like two RF chokes in the L & N and reduces the RF signal that is overlaid on those conductors.   x2 when going from one RCBO circuit to another 
Latest Powerline adapters now attempt to use the E ring / Circuit too which doesn't have this problem

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Plus I've been advised you cannot run Cat5/6 cabling from one property on one ring main, to another property on a separate ring main due to Earthing/Grounding issues, and would cause issues/fire risk from lightning strikes.

I'd be more worried about a lighting strike taking the roof of the property off...

and blowing all the mains cables & sockets etc.. out of the walls.....

Than just a bit of smoke from a Cat5 cable....   :C

As for earthing grounding issues ….?

How does that work with routers and stuff that is "Double Insulated"...

i.e.  NO earth...

AKA transformers that power the devices have those plastic lugs where the earth pin goes..???

Just pondering ………………….   :shakehead