In the coming months/years I will be considering buying a electric van. My AVG milage over the past 5 years is around 10k. Do electric vans make sense or are they not advanced enough and my main question is are zappi chargers the ones to go for or is there a better alternative
EV charger
- Thread starter Andy1733
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A few figures for you
the running costs of an diesel van getting 35mpg at £1.99 a litre works out to be £2558 per year
the running costs of an electric van getting 3 miles/kWh at £0.29 per kWh works out to be £967 per year
So an overall saving of £1591 a year at todays prices
Couple that with reduced servicing costs and zero road fund license then you could easily be saving £2k or more dependant on your electricity tariff... some companies have EV tariffs which are similar to E7, but tend to give you 4 or 5 hours of cheaper electricity.... however these tariffs are not for everyone
On the flip side, a BEV Vivaro costs £369 +vat to lease while an ICE Vivaro costs £255 +vat .... per month (Global vans).... a cost difference of £1368 +vat a year
If you were looking to buy through a company (before the end of March 2023) then this purchase would also come under the super deduction, where you can set off 130% of the value of the van against your corporation tax
Zappi charge points are pretty solid and work well with solar PV and battery storage
the running costs of an diesel van getting 35mpg at £1.99 a litre works out to be £2558 per year
the running costs of an electric van getting 3 miles/kWh at £0.29 per kWh works out to be £967 per year
So an overall saving of £1591 a year at todays prices
Couple that with reduced servicing costs and zero road fund license then you could easily be saving £2k or more dependant on your electricity tariff... some companies have EV tariffs which are similar to E7, but tend to give you 4 or 5 hours of cheaper electricity.... however these tariffs are not for everyone
On the flip side, a BEV Vivaro costs £369 +vat to lease while an ICE Vivaro costs £255 +vat .... per month (Global vans).... a cost difference of £1368 +vat a year
If you were looking to buy through a company (before the end of March 2023) then this purchase would also come under the super deduction, where you can set off 130% of the value of the van against your corporation tax
Zappi charge points are pretty solid and work well with solar PV and battery storage
If you do less than 50kms a day and want to pay someone to dispose of your van in 10 years it might be viable,
For most people in the real world, it's not worth it,
What hasn't been mentioned is the hassle, and time, it will take to charge it if you do any actual distance, and time is money.
Oh, and it breaks down, good luck, the repair bills can be steep, if you can actually find someone to repair it.
For most people in the real world, it's not worth it,
What hasn't been mentioned is the hassle, and time, it will take to charge it if you do any actual distance, and time is money.
Oh, and it breaks down, good luck, the repair bills can be steep, if you can actually find someone to repair it.
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
Is there a way to disengage the drive if it breaks down for towing or even getting it onto a truck? I seem to remember seeing a video of a new Range Rover that stopped in the fast lane and the recovery had to drag it up the ramp as wheels wouldn’t turn? Not an ideal situation for our beloved traffic officers to get the vehicle quickly off the road?
The ONLY people that are pushing for EV use are those that stand to make money from them,
Not knocking any average person for making a few quid, but believing the snake oil salesmen that are pushing them as being environment friendly,
They are a bigger PoS than a very big piece of PoS
Gullible fools abound everywhere
Not knocking any average person for making a few quid, but believing the snake oil salesmen that are pushing them as being environment friendly,
They are a bigger PoS than a very big piece of PoS
Gullible fools abound everywhere
That's probably an automatic hand brake causing problems
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
So you’re not in for one of these either?
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/advice/best/electric-motorbikes/#Zero_S
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/advice/best/electric-motorbikes/#Zero_S
So what's your solution then?The ONLY people that are pushing for EV use are those that stand to make money from them,
Not knocking any average person for making a few quid, but believing the snake oil salesmen that are pushing them as being environment friendly,
They are a bigger PoS than a very big piece of PoS
Gullible fools abound everywhere
Something that is actually renewable that doesn't take as much to produce as a diesel costs in 20 years,
Plus a normal ICE can be recycled easily, unlike an EV, which is basically worthless after 10 years,
Nuclear , as unpalatable as it may be, is currently the only viable short to mid term answer that I can see.
Batteries, as we currently have the technology to produce, are not.
I didn't say I had any answers,
But then again, I'm not the snake oil salesman trying to sell something that it's not.
OK,,, I get that you're a petrol head @steptoe, but some of the facts that you're coming out with are just plainly wrong.
The environmental tipping point between EV and ICE is about 60,000 miles (new for new), after that the EV streaks ahead, while any ICE vehicle carries on polluting
The cost tipping point, while about £7k difference at the moment, will only be a few years given the figures that I posted above... and probably sooner given the higher residual value of EV's
Now,,, when you get to the batteries being unusable in 10 years,,,, there are plenty of EV's that are more than 10 years old, there are a few garages that can repair the batteries on a cellular level,, and when the car is truly beyond repair any good cells can be used for battery storage.
I know that you're not going to change your mind, and I'm not going to try to,,, but I will call you out
The environmental tipping point between EV and ICE is about 60,000 miles (new for new), after that the EV streaks ahead, while any ICE vehicle carries on polluting
The cost tipping point, while about £7k difference at the moment, will only be a few years given the figures that I posted above... and probably sooner given the higher residual value of EV's
Now,,, when you get to the batteries being unusable in 10 years,,,, there are plenty of EV's that are more than 10 years old, there are a few garages that can repair the batteries on a cellular level,, and when the car is truly beyond repair any good cells can be used for battery storage.
I know that you're not going to change your mind, and I'm not going to try to,,, but I will call you out
I was hoping all the neigh sayer stuff you've clearly been getting information from might at least offer an alternative solution. Clearly they haven't got one and we need workable solutions now, not in several decades time.
Batteries are fully recyclable, what our government should be doing is investing / supporting somehow the facilities to do this. I'm not a fan of batteries, but there's little alternative currently.
@NozSpark you are merely cherry picking what you chose to, whether you really believe it or not is up to you, but you obviously feel good about it, so fair play.
The 60,000 miles is rubbish, the carbon footprint to produce an EV is roughly equivalent to a normal diesel doing 20 years, and that doesn't take into account that most EVs are charged using fossil fuels.
@binky facts are not nay sayer stuff, it's just that I chose to believe actual facts and not someone with a hidden agenda pushing snake oil to line their own pockets.
EVs may be the future, but this is the present, and right now, the facts about EVs don't stack up.
The 60,000 miles is rubbish, the carbon footprint to produce an EV is roughly equivalent to a normal diesel doing 20 years, and that doesn't take into account that most EVs are charged using fossil fuels.
@binky facts are not nay sayer stuff, it's just that I chose to believe actual facts and not someone with a hidden agenda pushing snake oil to line their own pockets.
EVs may be the future, but this is the present, and right now, the facts about EVs don't stack up.
Do you not think there's also a hidden agenda to continue burning fossil fuels? One of the most outspoken critics of climate change was the former owner of a coal mine, and even he now accepts climate change is man made.
I'm no fan of EVs either, to me it's a stop gap technology, but continuing to burn fossil fuels is not sustainable, and as Putin has just demonstrated, leaves us vulnerable to the whims of other nations.
Something we agree on.
(maybe not the climate change bit tho
)Fossil fuels cannot be the ultimate answer,
And for sure, EVs are nothing more than a whim, at best, atm.
It's very similar to the windmill con, tell me again what friend of a friend in parliament has a shitload of shares in wind farms,???
Just more snake oil lining someone's pocket
Don't get me wrong, windfarms do work, but in the UK they were/are being erected for all the wrong reasons, by the wrong people, and all for a big brown envelope.
Future tech is just that, for the future, and that may well be EVs, but not now, not until they can be manufactured at a reasonable carbon level, and charged fossil fuel free, and decent battery lifespan and range, none of this is achievable right now at a cost a normal person can afford, even reasonable affluent folks can't afford a decent EV outright, any idiot I know that has one is either on lease or tick, mostly lease, which isn't probably a bad idea as they will be worth less than my 15 yo van in 5 years.
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It has been clear for some time that there will be a hole in the tax take as EV’s become more popular.
Extract from article in today’s paper-
“Electric cars may be fitted with tracking devices as part of a proposed pay-per-mile road taxation scheme, it emerged last night.
The government’s climate advisers, the Climate Change Committee (CCC), had warned that ways had to be found to cover a “significant hole” that could emerge in public finances. Fuel duty and other taxes could be lost when electric cars replace petrol and diesel cars, sparking the proposals for the use of vehicle tracking technologies. Petrol and diesel drivers paying fuel duty at 52.95 pence per litre brought in £28 billion for the government last year.
According to The Daily Telegraph, the CCC said a “sensible and fair” approach would see drivers, not general taxation, cover the costs.“
While I’m considering an EV myself, it would seem that the economics of running an EV vs ICEV will be changing in the future, so choosing an EV now, should be based on more than just beneficial running costs and EV take-up will likely be negatively impacted.
Extract from article in today’s paper-
“Electric cars may be fitted with tracking devices as part of a proposed pay-per-mile road taxation scheme, it emerged last night.
The government’s climate advisers, the Climate Change Committee (CCC), had warned that ways had to be found to cover a “significant hole” that could emerge in public finances. Fuel duty and other taxes could be lost when electric cars replace petrol and diesel cars, sparking the proposals for the use of vehicle tracking technologies. Petrol and diesel drivers paying fuel duty at 52.95 pence per litre brought in £28 billion for the government last year.
According to The Daily Telegraph, the CCC said a “sensible and fair” approach would see drivers, not general taxation, cover the costs.“
While I’m considering an EV myself, it would seem that the economics of running an EV vs ICEV will be changing in the future, so choosing an EV now, should be based on more than just beneficial running costs and EV take-up will likely be negatively impacted.
PaulieN
Well-known member
You can charge that van for 4 hours nightly at 7.5p kWh if you can use an Octopus Go tariff. So that's about 26kW net after charging losses. At 3 miles per kW used, that gives you 78 miles or so per night at 5p, so savings can be a lot higher than your figures!
PaulieN
Well-known member
Nope, certainly not if you're buying or leasing new anyway.
If you charge at home nightly, unless you are doing huge daily mileages, you're not going to be charging away from home very often at all, and properly set up, overnight home charging can be dirt cheap.
Breaking down, repair costs aren't going to be your problem with warranty exceeding lease/PCP terms.
I'll also bet you good money, it's the Petrol/Diesel van you won't be able to give away 10 years from now, not the EV!
Very carbon friendly,
Tell me again, why did you buy an EV,?
Ah, ok, to charge it from the grid that generates electricity by burning fossil fuels,
Ah, at least you feel good about protecting the planet.
Edit : it's an EV , you won't be doing big miles anyway, unless you ha e a couple of days to cover 500miles, and that's not a lot tbh.
Very carbon friendly,
Tell me again, why did you buy an EV,?
Ah, ok, to charge it from the grid that generates electricity by burning fossil fuels,
Ah, at least you feel good about protecting the planet
78 miles on a charge,
Where are you going, the local shop,?
That's a perfect example of how EVs are impractical for anyone that actually goes anywhere.
I've went further on the bus.
overnight soaks up wind turbine energy production, as well as keeping nuclear turning over. Have a look at this, second bit down is best partVery carbon friendly,
Ah, ok, to charge it from the grid that generates electricity by burning fossil fuels,
https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live
