EV charger

[NozSpark]

Just for Steptoe.... this is a quote from a report on "Effects of battery manufacturing on electric vehicle life-cycle greenhouse gas emissions".... I'm afraid that it somewhat disagrees with your 20 years statement

An average electric vehicle in Europe produces 50% less life-cycle greenhouse gases over the first 150,000 kilometers of driving, although the relative benefit varies from 28% to 72%, depending on local electricity production.4 An electric car’s higher manufacturing-phase emissions would be paid back in 2 years of driving with European average grid electricity compared to a typical vehicle. This emissions recovery period is no more than 3 years even in countries with relatively higher-carbon electricity such as in Germany.

https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/EV-life-cycle-GHG_ICCT-Briefing_09022018_vF.pdf

 

[PaulieN]

I'm going to gracefully bow out, because blinkered EV fans just do not want to know the truth, all I am getting is statistics spouted to me, statistics will say whatever the person paying for them wants them to say.
A wiser man than me once said there are 3 types of lies,
Lies
Damned Lies
and Statistics

If you don't want to study facts, ( I can't believe @PaulieN used Reuters as a source of facts LMFAO ), that just about sums up the intelligence of (some)EV owners , then that's up to you, but I think it says more about @PaulieN believing Reuters, than I need to carry on here,
Arguing with an idiot is fruitless, I will only end up being beat by experience.

If anyone can come up with actual facts, and not opinions or statistics, to back up their EV claims then I'm willing to listen.
As for @PaulieN , maybe apply to Audi as a consultant, you can obviously help them with you emission figures, you are a joke onto yourself.

OK, I'll agree we're unlikely to see eye to eye on this, going nowhere. Do you see how you are blinkered too though, picking your own biased anti EV "facts"?

Regarding these "facts" can you provide your sources? Let's see where you've got 'em from!

 

[steptoe]

OK, I'll agree we're unlikely to see eye to eye on this, going nowhere. Do you see how you are blinkered too though, picking your own biased anti EV "facts"?

Regarding these "facts" can you provide your sources? Let's see where you've got 'em from!

I don't have to,
You are the one claiming they are environmentally friendly, prove it.
I've already said they are worse over a 20 year lifespan than a diesel ,
It's been documented many times, and not by Reuters, by actual fact using agencies.
Recycling comes into it as well, how long do batteries last these days,?

 

[steptoe]

Just for Steptoe.... this is a quote from a report on "Effects of battery manufacturing on electric vehicle life-cycle greenhouse gas emissions".... I'm afraid that it somewhat disagrees with your 20 years statement

An average electric vehicle in Europe produces 50% less life-cycle greenhouse gases over the first 150,000 kilometers of driving, although the relative benefit varies from 28% to 72%, depending on local electricity production.4 An electric car’s higher manufacturing-phase emissions would be paid back in 2 years of driving with European average grid electricity compared to a typical vehicle. This emissions recovery period is no more than 3 years even in countries with relatively higher-carbon electricity such as in Germany.

https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/EV-life-cycle-GHG_ICCT-Briefing_09022018_vF.pdf

Where does it say 20 year lifecycle,?
150,000kms is less than 10 years

 

[binky]

They may be the future, but they are not the present, I've already said that.

Not for you, but for many others, who drive a lot less they are fine. Horses for courses.

 

[binky]

by actual fact using agencies.

Like who, and how long ago?

 

[PaulieN]

I don't have to,
You are the one claiming they are environmentally friendly, prove it.
I've already said they are worse over a 20 year lifespan than a diesel ,
It's been documented many times, and not by Reuters, by actual fact using agencies.
Recycling comes into it as well, how long do batteries last these days,?

You really do, If you're going to make an extraordinary claim that building and fuelling an EV is dirtier than a Diesel over 20 years, you can't just pull that out of your bottom, where is your source?, and it needs to include emissions from drilling, refining and transporting the fuel source as well as the car builds and fuel burn/use pollution.

There is simply no such reputable research showing this, as your claim is untrue.

 

[steptoe]

You really do, If you're going to make an extraordinary claim that building and fuelling an EV is dirtier than a Diesel over 20 years, you can't just pull that out of your bottom, where is your source?, and it needs to include emissions from drilling, refining and transporting the fuel source as well as the car builds and fuel burn/use pollution.

There is simply no such reputable research showing this, as your claim is untrue.

Ye, you're claim for friendly EV just got a lot worse,
Child slave labour mining the crap needed for the batteries.
Like I said, I have nothing to defend, you are the one making wild spurious unfounded claims that EV is so eco friendly, stop bugging your tree and get real.
And tell me, how does this fictional renewable electric if yours know which house to go to,?
Yet another one if your Dreamland claims.
Have you actually said one thing you can back up by fact,?
So far we have 100% renewable electric, Audi are liars and you are correct, and a few others, I have an actual life and honestly can't be arsed blowing holes in virtually everything you spout out.
I take it you have heard of the term gobshite,?
Do you have a mirror in your 100% renewable energy house,?

 

[Sharpend]

Regardless of the environmental smokes and mirrors here’s what I think,
There is a place for EV, strictly speaking major cities this would then stop the local government charging the innocent for driving in their area. If EV’s were made compulsory for all city residents to significantly clean the air in which they live (far better for the human) then visiting persons who probably produce a fraction of emissions by comparison wouldn’t be taxed for visiting.
Of course this is clearly supported by government given the investment in city charging availability to more rural areas.

Let’s face it EV’s are not suitable as a work vehicle for those that travel up and down the country. Most work environments do not cater for significant EV users.
Many/most homes don’t have the facility to charge at home, those without a driveway, those that go more upwards than outwards (blocks of flats),

So realistically how user friendly are they? Sure they will suit some but I’m sure do not fit most.

Oh and of course you may think your saving now but when the government changes the goal posts?

Should they actually permit widespread development of synthetic fuel which only emits the carbon it takes to produce it then where’s the need for EV?

Whilst EV may be seen to be a good concept personally I don’t think it’s been to well thought out?
It’s almost a knee jerk response that is doomed to fail?

But what do I know?

 

[PaulieN]

Ye, you're claim for friendly EV just got a lot worse,
Child slave labour mining the crap needed for the batteries.
Like I said, I have nothing to defend, you are the one making wild spurious unfounded claims that EV is so eco friendly, stop bugging your tree and get real.
And tell me, how does this fictional renewable electric if yours know which house to go to,?
Yet another one if your Dreamland claims.
Have you actually said one thing you can back up by fact,?
So far we have 100% renewable electric, Audi are liars and you are correct, and a few others, I have an actual life and honestly can't be arsed blowing holes in virtually everything you spout out.
I take it you have heard of the term gobshite,?
Do you have a mirror in your 100% renewable energy house,?

You must mean cobalt, some does come from dubious sources and there is a little bit, used once, in an EV battery. It's used in all refined road fuel that you burn for the life of your car.

I just stated an EV was cleaner than ICE cars, this is a proven fact, not that it's environmentally friendly, the only answer there is no car at all.

So you really are that dumb? renewable generation is added to the grid and matched to users, so say octopus generate 10mW renewable, that is matched to 10mW of renewable tariff users. Maybe we should run separate grids so you can understand better eh?

Blow holes, you've come up with squat so far, come on show me just one source you've used in coming to your beliefs?

I have heard of the term, you meet the definition quite well.

This interaction reminds me of what Mark Twain once said, "There is no point in arguing with an idiot, he'll just bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience"

OK, I really am done now, I'm sure you'll want the last word anyway...

 

[steptoe]

You must mean cobalt, some does come from dubious sources and there is a little bit, used once, in an EV battery. It's used in all refined road fuel that you burn for the life of your car.

No , I mean the **** that is mines for your EV batteries, quite a substantial amount actually.

I just stated an EV was cleaner than ICE cars, this is a proven fact, not that it's environmentally friendly, the only answer there is no car at all.

No, you said an EV is more environmentally friendly than a normal vehicle, of which you have offered absolutely no evidence over a 20 year lifespan

So you really are that dumb? renewable generation is added to the grid and matched to users, so say octopus generate 10mW renewable, that is matched to 10mW of renewable tariff users. Maybe we should run separate grids so you can understand better eh?

I'm dumb, you're that one that claimed you are 100% renewable energy, yet you use electricity generated by fossil fuels and us merely offset by bought carbon credits, learn how to read and actually understand things before you purport them as facts.

Blow holes, you've come up with squat so far, come on show me just one source you've used in coming to your beliefs?

It's not my beliefs, you have yet to back up your facts that any EV is better than an ICE , you made the claim, you provide the evidence.

I have heard of the term, you meet the definition quite well.

Have not not got that mirror I asked about,?

This interaction reminds me of what Mark Twain once said, "There is no point in arguing with an idiot, he'll just bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience"

Oh, now you are quoting me to you,
Still got nothing original to come up with.?

OK, I really am done now, I'm sure you'll want the last word anyway...

Not particularly,
Although you remind me of a henpecked husband, you will never be right at home , so you want to be right somewhere, no matter how wrong you are,

Come back when you have actual facts, and are not still trying to convince yourself you have not been conned into buying an EV to be eco friendly , they have their place, but as part of the solution to global warming , they don't have it yet.
Only in your tiny little closed blinkered sell me some feel good snake oil mind.

Take care, wouldn't want a electric bus to run you over when you could be a martyr and die slowly of carbon monoxide poisoning.

 

[binky]

Ye, you're claim for friendly EV just got a lot worse,
Child slave labour mining the crap needed for the batteries.
Like I said, I have nothing to defend, you are the one making wild spurious unfounded claims that EV is so eco friendly, stop bugging your tree and get real.
And tell me, how does this fictional renewable electric if yours know which house to go to,?
Yet another one if your Dreamland claims.
Have you actually said one thing you can back up by fact,?
So far we have 100% renewable electric, Audi are liars and you are correct, and a few others, I have an actual life and honestly can't be arsed blowing holes in virtually everything you spout out.
I take it you have heard of the term gobshite,?
Do you have a mirror in your 100% renewable energy house,?

lots of claims and no facts, classic conspiracy theory youtuber BS

Just for once back up your claims, if you can

 

[NozSpark]

Where does it say 20 year lifecycle,?
150,000kms is less than 10 years

You did

@NozSpark you are merely cherry picking what you chose to, whether you really believe it or not is up to you, but you obviously feel good about it, so fair play.
The 60,000 miles is rubbish, the carbon footprint to produce an EV is roughly equivalent to a normal diesel doing 20 years, and that doesn't take into account that most EVs are charged using fossil fuels.

And if you go off that paper I quoted then the environmental tipping point is typically <50,000 miles (if you transpose the figures)

 

[Sharpend]

Ok ok, so given that not one of us here is involved with the development from concept to design to build and has no direct link with EV production I think it’s fair to say that we are all Mushrooms fed on others statistics, which have no real fact base as statistics are only a best guess valuation based on theoretical theology. How can they say that they are better than the ICE when they’ve not been here long enough to make a full assessment or comparison. Comeback in another 30 years and then give me facts based upon the physical evidence.
In the meantime all be happy to fall on whatever side of the fence you wish just don’t expect everybody to fall on your side.

 

[binky]

Ok ok, so given that not one of us here is involved with the development from concept to design to build and has no direct link with EV production I think it’s fair to say that we are all Mushrooms fed on others statistics, which have no real fact base as statistics are only a best guess valuation based on theoretical theology. How can they say that they are better than the ICE when they’ve not been here long enough to make a full assessment or comparison. Comeback in another 30 years and then give me facts based upon the physical evidence.
In the meantime all be happy to fall on whatever side of the fence you wish just don’t expect everybody to fall on your side.

Simple fact is the ice is doomed eventually whatever you believe. Or at least an ice burning fossil fuels, because they are a finite supply of energy.

 

[Sharpend]

Simple fact is the ice is doomed eventually whatever you believe. Or at least an ice burning fossil fuels, because they are a finite supply of energy.

The ice isn’t doomed what you use to fuel it might be. All things can be adapted and don’t be too surprised if an adapted ICE is brought about to run on something quite different.
I mean come on, the great eco warrior princess Thunberg even ran a Diesel engine on sail power apparently!!!

 

[binky]

The ice isn’t doomed what you use to fuel it might be. All things can be adapted and don’t be too surprised if an adapted ICE is brought about to run on something quite different.
I mean come on, the great eco warrior princess Thunberg even ran a Diesel engine on sail power apparently!!!

Probably only to get in and out of moorings. That boat she hitched a ride on is faster than ice powered boats using wind alone. You can run ice on other fuels, but they aren't that efficient, with lots of energy wasted as heat, hence they all have cooling radiators. That's one of the great joys of EV, far less energy wasted as it's direct drive to the wheels. No gearbox, no transmission trains/ drive shafts etc etc. diesel electric trains are the same, albeit they use diesel to run a generator in the first place, to power large electric motors that turn the wheels. It's done that way for efficiency. That's part of the reason for electrifying railways, get rid of the heavy diesel generator.

 

[Gian]

If you do less than 50kms a day and want to pay someone to dispose of your van in 10 years it might be viable,
For most people in the real world, it's not worth it,
What hasn't been mentioned is the hassle, and time, it will take to charge it if you do any actual distance, and time is money.
Oh, and it breaks down, good luck, the repair bills can be steep, if you can actually find someone to repair it.

Your correct, it's the time it takes to charge , find working fast chargers and the cost per kWh .

 

[Chewbacca]

Ye, you're claim for friendly EV just got a lot worse,
Child slave labour mining the crap needed for the batteries.
Like I said, I have nothing to defend, you are the one making wild spurious unfounded claims that EV is so eco friendly, stop bugging your tree and get real.
And tell me, how does this fictional renewable electric if yours know which house to go to,?
Yet another one if your Dreamland claims.
Have you actually said one thing you can back up by fact,?
So far we have 100% renewable electric, Audi are liars and you are correct, and a few others, I have an actual life and honestly can't be arsed blowing holes in virtually everything you spout out.
I take it you have heard of the term gobshite,?
Do you have a mirror in your 100% renewable energy house,?

kindly moderate your language, there is no need for insults on this forum. By all means argue until you are blue in the face, but if you are going to do that, then at least present counter figures and stats of your own to back up your arguments.

 

[binky]

not unbiased, as this is from Mitsuibishi Industries who are heavily involved in Hydrogen, but some interesting reading non the less.

https://spectra.mhi.com/hydrogen?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=spectra