Failed D.E.I.P.I.R. (for a single dwelling)

[M107]

how much does your main dealership car garage charge for an hours labour?

Well they just quoted me

 

[Manator]

Hello Sidewinder - I think you might be right. They told me that as there is a gas supply to the property no certificate is necessary.

'They' however 'insist' on having a certificate (although not necessary) which is why I have the 'satisfactory' P.I.R. - to them this exceeds requirements.

I have stated that I think I need a E.I.C. and the Buildings Control informed of the installation but they will not agree this.

They have mis informed you, any installation work requires a full EIC for that work, the installation of a new Consumer Unit is also notifiable under the building regulations Part P. Minor works can have a simple certificate, for instance moving a socket, or repairs etc. This kind of work is not minor though. You must insist that you are provided with the proper paperwork.

 

[Mr. SLim]

OK Pic 6 & pic 8 show non compliances end of.Do you require assistance to sort this?

Thanks for your view.

I rather expected something would not be right.

In regards to assistance, I am not sure yet - thanks for your offer of assistance.

I think I should raise a complaint with N.I.C.E.I.C.

 

[Manator]

I am in Aylesbury at the moment, and I am going into London in the morning near Barnet, after that I am going back home, but I will be back London way Tuesday next week, if you need anyone to give a statement on the condition I could help you out.

 

[PC Electrics]

Hello Sidewinder - I think you might be right. They told me that as there is a gas supply to the property no certificate is necessary.

'They' however 'insist' on having a certificate (although not necessary) which is why I have the 'satisfactory' P.I.R. - to them this exceeds requirements.

I have stated that I think I need a E.I.C. and the Buildings Control informed of the installation but they will not agree this.

It's not for 'them' to agree or disagree with. It's the Law - from Part P of the Building Regulations, echoing the requirements of BS7671.

I should get straight on to the NIC if I were you. Make it clear you are the client (you are paying for this work).

You should consider changing rental agencies too.

Have you paid this bill yet?

 

[Sidewinder]

YES, YES, YES & YES!

I can provide you with expert witness & consultancy if you wish though I am a fair way away from you and would not wish to send you down that road unless you feel it appropriate, I can arrange a solicitor for you or I can work with your solicitor if you wish to prepare a case.

 

[Theorysparky]

Mr Slim

are you the Tenant or the landlord of the property ??????

 

[Mr. SLim]

They have mis informed you, any installation work requires a full EIC for that work, the installation of a new Consumer Unit is also notifiable under the building regulations Part P. Minor works can have a simple certificate, for instance moving a socket, or repairs etc. This kind of work is not minor though. You must insist that you are provided with the proper paperwork.

Hello Manator, thanks for this advice.

Sadly I have told them this and added that I felt the work was incomplete without the correct paperwork.

I have spent a lot of time trying to convince them but they do not want to listen and relations are now very bad indeed.

 

[Andy™]

ive only read parts of this thread, but hey dont sound like they know what they are doing, and an EIC is a must for a new CU, regardless of a PIR being done or not. contact NICEIC for a start. and the top of that CU isnt IPx4 (along with what other have already pointed out)

 

[Mr. SLim]

Mr Slimare you the Tenant or the landlord of the property ??????

Hello Theorysparky,

I own the property but I am not the landlord.

The agents are the landlords - I have leased the property to the agents.

 

[steptoe]

by the way Mr SLim,

AFAIAA , tvhe building regs are law, and failure to comply with them would leave you, as the landlord as the guilty party, so unless you have ensure they are aware of this then you would be deemed guilty,

you can mitigate this responsibility by employing a properly registered electrician and him inform BC on your behalf of the work which he has carried out,

it seems that although you may have employed a registered contractor (NICEIC domestic installer), he has failed to complete his end of the contract by carrying out said works by the following,

a sub standard quality, failing to inform BC , and failing to issue the appropriate paperwork,

Im sure some others may correct me on some points I have got wrong.

EDIT : Im not sure how this works then,

but, I would be fairly certain you are still the landlord, they are merely subletting,

as you are paying for the works, then if anything happens they will be after you for letting to them a substandard property,

seems like they dont care and are only after a quick buck,

are the agency and sparks in a little club here???

anyone see this?

 

[Manator]

Hello Manator, thanks for this advice. Sadly I have told them this and added that I felt the work was incomplete without the correct paperwork.

I have spent a lot of time trying to convince them but they do not want to listen and relations are now very bad indeed.

The only option you have left is to report this to the NICEIC, they will take all the details from you. They will then register it as a complaint against the contractor who carried out the works, he will then be given the opportunity to rectify this work. If he does not do this the NICEIC will appoint another electrician to do the remedial works at no cost to yourself.

It may be a good idea to call the local building planning office and tell them that recent works have been carried out by an electrician and you are concerned that you have not yet received the building compliance certificate. They will ask for the details, just tell them that it was done by a registered contractor but despite numerous requests you have not received any certification.

 

[Mr. SLim]

I am in Aylesbury at the moment, and I am going into London in the morning near Barnet, after that I am going back home, but I will be back London way Tuesday next week, if you need anyone to give a statement on the condition I could help you out.

Hello Manator and thanks.

I am not sure how this works but I am hoping that my complaint which I will furnish with:

1. the 'unsatisfactory' and 'satisfactory' P.I.R.s

2. the photos of the CU installation

3. the 'list' of required works resulting from the 'unsatisfactory' P.I.R.

4. the detailed 'report' of the works carried out

5. and identifying the documents I think I should have

will encourage N.I.C.E.I.C. to inform the contractor to put everything right and this in turn will filter back to the 'agents' who will see that they were wrong all along etc.

OR am I being naive?

 

[monkey5]

that install is appauling!

cant remember if this has been asked or not but is the "contractor" (used loosely) on the competant person list, here Local Authority Building Control - SEARCH. i think this needs to go to niceic personally, if hes on there! with some of them pics he would not pass his yearly assessment - id have thought.

as nearly everyone else has said id love to help in some way on this as i think it appauling (and he didnt really give you a great job for a fair price, did he), but the otheres would be more qualified to do something and help.

wayne

 

[Manator]

Not at all, you have some very good evidence at your disposal, and the NICEIC will take your complaint very seriously.

 

[monkey5]

Hello Manator and thanks.I am not sure how this works but I am hoping that my complaint which I will furnish with:

1. the 'unsatisfactory' and 'satisfactory' P.I.R.s

2. the photos of the CU installation

3. the 'list' of required works resulting from the 'unsatisfactory' P.I.R.

4. the detailed 'report' of the works carried out

5. and identifying the documents I think I should have

will encourage N.I.C.E.I.C. to inform the contractor to put everything right and this in turn will filter back to the 'agents' who will see that they were wrong all along etc.

OR am I being naive?

i think/would hope it will catch there eye and there'll make an example of it and get it sorted.

 

[Mr. SLim]

pic 1: are those unsheathed tails? tails and earth are untidy and longer than is really necessary. Also no clipping or cable support.

Do the tails and earth go through holes in the top surface? If so there should be a max gap of 1mm around the cables.

pic 5: oh dear, i see the cables do go through a large hole.

And what's that t&e with tape on it? is the sheath short of the enclosure? PVC tape isn't a very professional repair.

pic 8: still no sign of any clips on that bond cable

pic 9: what's this showing us?

pic 11: ah! it's the incoming supply cable - not much you can do about that except perhaps box it in.

pic 13: still no clips on all that height of cable. Rather poor.

Pity we can't see inside that CU

So are you telling us that he has installed a new CU but has NOT issued an Electrical Installation Certificate? And have you recieved a Part P Compliance Certificate from the NICEIC? Can you answer explicitly please

Hello PC - thanks for your views on the photos.

Regarding your questions:

1. I have not received an E.I.C.

2. I have not received a Part P Compliance Certificate.

BUT - I have received an 'unsatisfactory' P.I.R. and subsequent to 'remedial' work a 'satisfactory P.I.R.

 

[monkey5]

Hello PC - thanks for your views on the photos.Regarding your questions:

1. I have not received an E.I.C.

2. I have not received a Part P Compliance Certificate.

BUT - I have received an 'unsatisfactory' P.I.R. and subsequent to 'remedial' work a 'satisfactory P.I.R.

a PIR is just a report on existing installation, any work carried out would need to be covered with a MWC or EIC, then if its notifiable will also need to be cover with a cert from BC. the PIR doesnt cover the replacement of CU.

wayne

 

[steptoe]

LMFAO

going by your pix MR SLim

I'd like to know by whose standards it is satisfactory,

its deffo not to mine,

but,

more importantly,

its NOT to BS7671 standards, which is what all electricians work to. (I think we can exclude special conditions in this instance folks)

 

[PC Electrics]

Hello PC - thanks for your views on the photos.Regarding your questions:

1. I have not received an E.I.C.

2. I have not received a Part P Compliance Certificate.

BUT - I have received an 'unsatisfactory' P.I.R. and subsequent to 'remedial' work a 'satisfactory P.I.R.

Then the work is illegal as it does not comply with th eBuilding Regulations untill all such paperwork is in place (within 28 days of the work being carried out).

I suggest you download a copy of Part P here:

Planning Portal - Approved documents

and send a copy to these 'agents'.

Notification of work is on page 7. See also additional note c page 8.

Certificates are covered on page 10 and 11

Example of an EIC on pages 23, 24, 28 and 29