first domestic rewire, opinions please.

[Evans Electric]

******... too busy thinking about cable runs, installation methods and volt drops and forgot about permitted zones. What is the 'done' thing about running cables from 1 floor to another? At present it would run vertical with the light switch on the ground floor so no problem, but then it goes through the bathroom vertically in a channel covered with architrive (sorry for the spelling mistake) in the middle of the wall, no sockets or switches to run in its zone. I think I may try Edmundsons this week then. Need to get my smokes and heat alarms so I'll pop down and spend a penny or two.

Richard if I remember correctly you can't hide cables up the middle of bathroom walls , (sure it was in the 15th)

 

[PC Electrics]

Surely you'll have a light switch on the landing so you can run a cable up to it and on to the loft.

 

[Richard Sutcliffe]

It was the thermal resistivity that threw me with method 57. Is there anywhere with reference tables to common thermal properties for me to use next time?

The cables run in a void between the door casing and the wall, behind architrave.

I think the only way to get around the RCD protecting sockets would be to have the smoke circuit on an RCBO.

With design of a domestic circuit will I require to leave circuit diagrams etc as well as the obvious inspection and test sheets.

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Richard if I remember correctly you can't hide cables up bathroom walls , (sure it was in the 15th)

Can someone clarify this please?

The problem running them up the landings are radiators under the lighting switches which would result in lots of cables being very close to central heating pipes which I'm not keen on that idea. Looks like my only other option is in the corner of the living room.

 

[batty]

There are ways of getting cables to where you want to without putting them in unsafe places. How about running them up with a socket cable so they are in a safe zone.

 

[PC Electrics]

Run up via a bedroom light switch then! we're only talking about one 1mm ca ble aren't we?

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For me, it beggars belief that any electrician should think it acceptable to run cables up a door frame behind architrave. The permissible zones are so fundamental to the way we wire a property. The diagram on page 74 of the OSG could hardly be simpler.

Sorry to be so blunt. I just hope it'll ram home the learning.

 

[steptoe]

Im not going to apologise for this,

But, the first thing I would suggest you do is learn to be an electrician before oh go out messing about with stuff that its very obvious you are not competent to do,

And this is very basic stuff you are asking about, its almost a college students project for assessment .

 

[Richard Sutcliffe]

Run up via a bedroom light switch then! we're only talking about one 1mm ca ble aren't we?---------- Post Auto-Merged at 22:59 ---------- Previous post was made at 22:52 ----------

For me, it beggars belief that any electrician should think it acceptable to run cables up a door frame behind architrave. The permissible zones are so fundamental to the way we wire a property. The diagram on page 74 of the OSG could hardly be simpler.

Sorry to be so blunt. I just hope it'll ram home the learning.

Running in line with the door frame is a light switch and an FCU which would bring that into the zone. That then runs into the bathroom as described above. I suppose I could keep the run through the living room then under the floor to a more suitable run through the 1st floor bedroom to the 2nd floor bedroom.

On the first floor I will need to run 1st and 2nd floor lighting, second floor power, 3core smoke and shower cable up to the ceiling, so not just a 1mm cable.

 

[steptoe]

:shakehead

 

[kme]

?????

There is a light switch "in line with" the door frame ?????

How the heck does THAT work out?

Ooh - and an FCU - Can you post a pic? I`ve never seen alight switch (and/or) a spur in a doorframe.

You don`t need to find ONE vertical rise through the whole building - moving cables below floorboards isn`t the hardest job, TBH.....

 

[Richard Sutcliffe]

Competency is a mixture of qualification and experience. If I had the experience I wouldn't of asked the questions, so I would agree.

However, to gain experience you must do the work. I have never had experience on a job such as this, hence why I have asked for pointers. I will not do work until I feel confident I can do it safely and legally, again why I asked for pointers.

I don't feel it is on the scale of a college project, at no point during college did we work anywhere larger than a single story bay with nice surfaces and easy access, nor did we cover building regs with reference to smoke alarms and extractor fans. This would all be learned during the NVQ, which as an adult learner who cannot feed his family on apprentice wages, cannot find a company willing to give me experience on these sides of the industry. Until then I am on a hard learning curve, which I understand will get me being called an idiot more than once.

I do very much appreciate all of the responses I have had though.

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?????There is a light switch "in line with" the door frame ?????

How the heck does THAT work out?

Ooh - and an FCU - Can you post a pic? I`ve never seen alight switch (and/or) a spur in a doorframe.

You don`t need to find ONE vertical rise through the whole building - moving cables below floorboards isn`t the hardest job, TBH.....

I will take a pic next time I'm down there. There is a cut out in the architrave for the switch and FCU. The FCU doesn't seem to operate anything at present so will be removed. The flooring is chipboard nailed to battens nailed to original floor boards nailed to joists. When I tried lifting 1 for a nosey found they weren't the nicest thing to work with.

 

[Sharpend]

As a bit of advice if I may, in the interest of both you and your client could I suggest that you take on the services of a more experienced spark and work with them to complete this project. This will give you the opportunity to ask and learn on the job with the benefit that all is safe and correct. I don't mean to be disrespectful but the college course is only a first step. You will need time to gain understanding and reasoning and respect for the trade that you have embarked upon. Without knowing your circumstances in relation to previous employment or wage need, I would seriously consider working with another experienced spark at a reduced wage (perhaps comparable to what you may be used too), until you are confident and competent in the area you choose to work in.

 

[batty]

Sharpie the house belongs to him he lets it out. He has an electrician mate that's going to sign the job off. He really would be better talking to him about what's required than us.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Competency is a mixture of qualification and experience. If I had the experience I wouldn't of asked the questions, so I would agree.However, to gain experience you must do the work. I have never had experience on a job such as this, hence why I have asked for pointers.

This project is riddled with so many potential pitfalls, such as the risk of a person without knowledge, doing work they think they understand wrong, because the forgot to ask a key question. However much people like to try and claim that they can teach themselves anything, in reality some skills cannot be passed on though books, internet forums or on-line tutorials, they have to be learned the slow hard way working at something along side someone else with experience and knowledge of that particular task. It is often only through watching someone do something can that the experienced person can suggest guidance how to do a task safer, quicker, neater, etc, etc. For a project such as this I think you need to work very closely with a competent person, and pay them for some time just advising and guiding you. I think you would learn more if you paid a competent person 2 or 3 hours labour to just come and design the job with you, walking round all the rooms, discussing everything, accessories cable routes cable sizes, circuit distribution etc, then together produce a room by room schedule of works. once you know that you can ask any other points which come to light, then you can actually start to get to grips with lifting floorboards and laying cables. As much as I would like to praise how good this forum and its members are, I am inclined to think due to your inexperience you may not actually know what questions to ask and none of our members have seen the property or can read you minds vision of what you are hoping to achieve once the work is complete.

If the initial design is flawed you will either end up wasting money rectifying an avoidable problem or settling for second best with some items or features missing from what you originally hoped for. From what you have already said and the level of some of your questions here, I am confident you would benefit from paying someone to do a site survey consultation with you and get some sound practical advice first hand, where you can also put into practice some of your concepts learned during your courses. (If your own contact is unable or too busy to do this, I bet one of our local forum members would be happy to come round and help you get a proper design schedule onto paper.)

Doc H.

 

[Guy]

Hi Richard,

If I am correct and you own the house I think this is a great opportunity for you. I am hoping to get a similiar job (customer has got quote but no reply yet) and like you I have the quals but limited experience. I have being doing some pub rewires and some domestic over the past months and the bloke that takes me on when he needs a lift has done the quote on the house, as I knew I couldnt do that without experience. If we get the job he is doing design and I am going to do most of the work with him popping in often to check progress and quality of work done, I think you should set something up thats a similiar arrangement. Remember to take into account that you will be slow, really slow, double the time that you think a job will take and that should be about right.

You have been getting a bit of a hard time on this thread the last couple of pages but I dont think that should deter you. Although some of your questions have been basic the fact that you are asking them proves that you are fully intending to do the job properly and most importantly safely. Leave all your work so it can be easily inspected. I think the most important point that hasn't come up is not your lack of experience but the compentancy of your partner and his abilty to make sure all work is safe and suitable, if he is up to scratch then your mistakes can be rectified.

Short course people have a bad reputation within the industry and now I have worked in it for a short while I appreciate how little we know (I class myself as a mate not an electrician). Keep asking the questions on here, bite the bullet when you get some negative comments, even the people most anti 5ww's appreciate that it is better you ask questions on here rather than not asking at all. Good luck, hope you enjoy it and keep us posted with the progress.

 

[batty]

Very well said Doc H and remember this is a stone structure house so this will bring problems in itself.

 

[Jono Pashley]

?????There is a light switch "in line with" the door frame ?????

How the heck does THAT work out?

Ooh - and an FCU - Can you post a pic? I`ve never seen alight switch (and/or) a spur in a doorframe.

You don`t need to find ONE vertical rise through the whole building - moving cables below floorboards isn`t the hardest job, TBH.....

fitted switches in door frames of built in waredrobe type things to switch the lights when you opened the door but thats about it! fiddly buggers those are :S

 

[batty]

I never liked those push to break switches always worried they may not switch off in fact I had a customer that had halogen lights in a wardrobe a company fitted. I did the electrics but didn't connect the switches one of them didn't operate and nearly caught the clothing in the wardrobe on fire. Jeannie do some heavy duty ones they seem a lot better than the standard ones.

 

[Ash]

I do the kitchen one of two ways,

one 2.5 radial for sockets

another 2.5 radial for FCUs to appliances.

or

4mm radial

or

grid for appliances

either way, death to the ring

 

[Joet1110]

I wouldn't run a 40a shower on 6mm cable.

10mm min

 

[Doc Hudson]

I wouldn't run a 40a shower on 6mm cable. 10mm min

+1.

Irrespective of the rating of the shower, I would not consider installing a new 6.0mm as a shower feed, It is a different mater fitting a shower to an existing 6.0mm circuit. But for new circuits and the cost difference from 6.0mm to 10.0mm, it is a false economy using the smaller cable.

Doc H.