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ahservices

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Im having an office built in my garden can the power be taken from a fused 13a spur off the main ring ? In the office there will be 4 off double sockets 1 off light and underfloor heating which will use about 1600 watts its about 30 meters away to so will 4mm swa do?

 
Im having an office built in my garden can the power be taken from a fused 13a spur off the main ring ? In the office there will be 4 off double sockets 1 off light and underfloor heating which will use about 1600 watts its about 30 meters away to so will 4mm swa do?

 
This thread will no doubt start the exporting earth debate again so I will deal with the circuit design only in terms of load/demand.

You have your expected load for the office, you need to work out the predicted load on the circuit you intend feeding it from and the distance to that point from the origin and then using the tables in Appendix 4 calculate the volt drop for the total circuit new and existing allowing for 'load distributed' along the total length.

 
personally id take it direct back to main C/U and stick on seperate RCBO 20A rated so any faults dont effect the existing property electrics

id go at least 6mm as well. 3 core ;)

 
there are lots of factors to consider with this. Whats your supply type, it will need rcd protection, you'll need to calculate volt drop, etc.

 
On top off the usual problems associated with running power to an outbuilding, underfloor heating is defined as a 'special installation' in the regs and needs to comply with any additional requirements.

I certainly wouldn't run it off the ring.

A couple of sockets and a light, maybe, but anything more - take it back to the CU and do it properly.

If you have no extraneous conductive parts, you can run the cpc to it;)

 
If you have no extraneous conductive parts, you can run the cpc to it ;)
Are you a DNO ??? plus the guy never even said what system was there TNC, TNS, TNCS, TT, IT

 
Sounds like you need a lot more than a 13amp spur, loads to consider on that installation you will have to be more specific about the whole setup.

Mike.

 
You may find that the heating mat itself will need a dedicated circuit form the CU before you even think about the sockets/lights.

With or without the heating mat this needs to be notified to LABC.

 
i will post pics of my office tomorrow

6mm swa from a 40 amp breaker in fuseboard

3 way cu in office feeding 5 doubles 2 lights and one smoke

telephone line with wireless broadband

13amp fcu not big enough

 
You may find that the heating mat itself will need a dedicated circuit form the CU before you even think about the sockets/lights.
Erm for 1600W!! 30m away plus the length of the cable through the house say at a guess 20m on a 4mm mentioned. If it was to be a dedicated circuit for the office, with a load of around 4.3KW at the end the volt drop is within 5% and if you want lights its around 2.6KW to achieve 3%

 
Are you a DNO ??? plus the guy never even said what system was there TNC, TNS, TNCS, TT, IT
No, I'm not a DNO - That's what the DNO told me. :D

And it's not gonna be IT or TNC is it??

The system is irrelevant - he can still run a CPC to it as long as there aren't bonding issues.

I wish everyone would put this old wives tale to bed once and for all!

 
No, I'm not a DNO - That's what the DNO told me. :D
Well if your not I strongly advice you don't tell people they can export and I trust you have it in writing so in the remote chance the DNO drops the neutral at the property you exported, you know that one where the end user has added something extraneous since you were last there.

Out of curiosity which DNO?, what was his/her position? and what part of the country was this in?

And it's not gonna be IT or TNC is it??
Yes its unlikely but the point being made was that without you knowing how could you advice, if it was a TT you would probably not export the earth, if its TNS then it is acceptable but if its TNCS then would your PI cover you to give that advice, the answer is likely to be NO!

The system is irrelevant - he can still run a CPC to it as long as there aren't bonding issues.
Bull - ask your insurer before giving this advice.

I wish everyone would put this old wives tale to bed once and for all!
I have asked my DNO on countless occasions over the years and the answer is NO and I respect that. E-ON, East Midlands before you ask.

 
I've had enough of this subject - believe what you want!!

You'll be fitting earth rods to an outdoor socket next! - coz we can't export the earth to the outside wall.

 
I've had enough of this subject - believe what you want!!You'll be fitting earth rods to an outdoor socket next! - coz we can't export the earth to the outside wall.
That is not a bad point.

Seriously though. The DNO you asked is NOT the same DNO across ALL the country so why do you think that other DNO's will give the same answer. There is a reason that TN-C-S is not allowed for certain installs and that's because its dangerous. If you look at where its not allowed, it places that need to export an earth.

Maybe you should re-examine the facts and not trust everything a telephone jockey has told you who is probably in India too.

 
Maybe you should re-examine the facts and not trust everything a telephone jockey has told you who is probably in India too.
I'm not trusting everything I'm told on the telephone. I'm using my common sense, intelligence and knowledge without listening to old wives tales.

If there are no exposed or extraneous conductive parts in an outbuilding, then there is nothing wrong with running 6mm 3-core SWA to it, using one core as the circuit protective conductor.

Nothing in the regs, the EAWR or anywhere else says that you can't! - regardless of the earthing system.

What do you think is going to happen with a loss of supply neutral - nothing - the current will flow down you water and gas pipes.

And if you haven't got these, then it isn't going antwhere, is it?

Are you really trying to tell me that if you have an attached garage, and you run an SWA cable for power and lighting to it, straight through the wall of your house, that it is any different if that garage is moved three metres away from the house and becomes detached.

As I said earlier, it's extraneous conductive parts that make the difference - and that still wouldn't mean you couldn't, it just means you have to consider the size of the bonding CSA, depending on the distance from the MET to the outbuilding - could end up something like 16mm, then you can't use your 6mm 3-core.

Those are the facts.

 
Anyway, I'm packing in being a sparky, I'm setting up selling earth rods, I'll make a fortune out of you lot:)

 
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