Guidance please

[Brian_L]

Good morning all. My first posting here and looking for some guidance please.

I have just had a bathroom refitted and part of the refirb. was removal of the existing centre light and fitting of three ip rated LED downlights. So the existing wiring to the former centre light was reused to feed the first of the three downlights and then the second and third lights linked off the first one (Fairly normal so far!). We had an electrician arrive to carry out a minor works test and provide a certificate. He says my existing consumer unit installed under 16th edition when the house was built has to be replaced as A} Its plastic cased and more so B) The lighting circuit feeding the bathroom is via a upper floor MCB and no RCD is in the lighting circuit. Just for note a RCD is in the circuit for three MCBs for all power sockets though.
What should have been a simple and not too expensive minor works test on an altered existing circuit is now a £840 complete replacement of the consumer unit to comply with current 18th edition.

My question is.... Is he correct in demanding that the consumer unit is upgraded to full Anti Surge/RCBOs or RCD for the lighting circuits MCBs or can the bathroom Downlights be tested under a Part P Minor Works heading as it's an alteration to an existing circuit with a C3 note for the existing consumer unit? While upgrading the consumer unit to meet 18th edition requirements is a good idea, I really can't afford the cost of such works currently!

Your views most welcomed.
Regards
Brian

Edit to correct spelling error

 

[binky]

He could of course just fit an RCBO or RCD in a box external to the cu for the lighting circuit that feeds your bathroom.

There's no need to replace the entire cu, just because it's not metal. The actual requirement is that the board be 'fire retardent' that doesn't mean it has to be metal

 

[ProDave]

Yes it boils my p*** when someone declares it must be replaced because it is plastic.

As above, change lighting mcb for rcbo depending on make the part will likely be somewhere between £30 and £50 and 10 minutes to swap it. Assuming he has done all testing already and declared the wiring okay.

Post a picture of your consumer unit and better advice can be given. But it does sound like you need a better electrician. (better means less inclined to price for work not strictly necessary)

 

[Brian_L]

Hi Gents
Thank you for your comments its appreciated
While the plastic probably isn't the main issue, its the complete refusal to test under minor works as existing circuit reused that gets me and then the quote for a new consumer unit.

As a thought.... Could the two Upper and Lower lighting circuit MCBs be repositions to the right of the RCD protected three socket MCBs and then they have RCD protection. Or is that not a wise thing to do?

Images of existing unit attached...
Regards
Brian

 

[Fleeting]

You are not going to get an RCBO for that but I suspect the RCD side has spare ways it can be moved to, not ideal but solves the problem.

 

[ProDave]

Yes, moving the light circuits to the right hand RCD protected section would be the easiest option without having to source new parts.

 

[Fleeting]

Do solar installers ever fit the correct protective device?

 

[mort2376]

Fit rcd spur next to board run lights through the spur unit. Problem solved. No need for a board change. Plastic units were fine at the time of installation. Even now it's only a recommended upgrade if on an escape route for an eicr report.

 

[Brian_L]

Fit rcd spur next to board run lights through the spur unit. Problem solved. No need for a board change. Plastic units were fine at the time of installation. Even now it's only a recommended upgrade if on an escape route for an eicr report.

Sounds a possibility, Thanks. Assume just the upper floor via a single spur then that covers Bathroom and all bedrooms etc. If a RCD spur is used should the fuse be left at 13Amp as MCB is still in line at 6A? Would that then be acceptable for a Minor Works test?

 

[mort2376]

I'd fuse the spur at either 5 or 10a. Chances are the mcb will trip before either of those sizes.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

To comply with current regs it should be a "Type A" RCD rather than the "AC" item already in the CU..

Why didn't the original electrician doing the physical wiring alterations to the lights, notice this before commencing the work?
(As these are basic checks that should be done before undertaking any alterations temporary or permanent.)

Its not wise to have too many circuits all sharing the same RCD..
To minimise problems in the event of RCD tripping the recommendations are for individual RCBO'd for all circuits.

 

[Brian_L]

Hi
The lighting alterations and wiring installation was carried out by the bathroom installer, who then arranged for an electrician to visit and what he thought would be a simple check, test and certificate!
I agree re the "Not too many on one RCD" approach. AFAIK I cannot get a RCBO into the existing consumer unit.
Wiring a separate passive RCD Spur after the upper level MCB and locating the spur next to the consumer unit should hopefully overcome the issues. Unless anyone has different views on this?

 

[binky]

Do solar installers ever fit the correct protective device?

that probably was correct at time of imstallation, apart from being mix and match, if that's what you are on about.

 

[Fleeting]

that probably was correct at time of imstallation, apart from being mix and match, if that's what you are on about.

Yes the mix and hope to match.

 

[Murdoch]

Do solar installers ever fit the correct protective device?

Not often and neither do EV installers

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi
The lighting alterations and wiring installation was carried out by the bathroom installer, who then arranged for an electrician to visit and what he thought would be a simple check, test and certificate!

Yet another example of the all to common, builder/kitchen fitter/loft-conversion bod/bathroom fitter/landscape gardener/Cowboy.. etc.. Who say they can "do the electrics for you", but in reality only know how to joint wires together.

The condition and appropriateness of the supply, earthing, bonding, and protective equipment should have been verified before any alterations..

The alterations should NOT have been energised before the circuit "dead-tests" were completed first..

The dead test results and the later live test results, taken with a suitable calibrated test instrument, would all be needed for the electrical certificate.

All electrical certificates have one, (or more), signed declaration box(es) to confirm the design, installation & testing all comply with current wiring regulations BS7671..

I am surprised this "third-party" electrician is willing to accept liability for someone else's design & installation..
Especially with the typical wiring standards of the majority of builder/kitchen fitter/loft-conversion bod/bathroom fitter/landscape gardener/Cowboys who are normal lacking in sufficient technical skills, knowledge and understanding to achieve compliance with BS7671.

Re the earlier point in your first post about a 'C3 code for the CU'.. Electrical certificates do NOT have any codes C1,C2,C3 etc.. These are code used on inspection reports where no alteration work has been done.

All alteration should comply with current regs. there are no coding options. But the alterations ONLY relate to the circuits that have been worked on, not the whole installation! So in your case it is just the bathroom light circuit.