Hot tub not earthed correctly?

[Craigo]

Hi all, the wife’s been having slight electric shocks from the kitchen sink and my hot tubs Started coming up with an error gcf not grounded/earthed correctly. The tub works fine when plugged in to next doors extension. I’ve just fitted a new 4ft earth rod, replaced all the earth straps on the water pipes and fitted another earth cable from the fuse board to the earth rod. I think the shocks may have stopped But the error still appears no matter which socket I plug it into in my house. Any ideas as to what I should look at next would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Murdoch]

Imho you need a local competent spark to check your home is properly earthed and that the equipotential bonding is too. 

And that hot your hot tub is properly connected too.

hope this helps

ps: you need to do this quite urgently

 

[Craigo]

Imho you need a local competent spark to check your home is properly earthed and that the equipotential bonding is too. 

And that hot your hot tub is properly connected too.

hope this helps

ps: you need to do this quite urgently

The original bonding wasn’t the best, it was pretty much hot and cold pipe in the bathroom bonded, then the cold pipe in the kitchen went round the house to the gas pipe then from the gas pipe to the fuse board and then down to a rotten earth rod. The combi boiler had no bonding at all so I thought I’d add some to it and link the hot and cold down stairs for good measure. I’m struggling to get a spark to come to the house at the moment as the wife needs to self isolate. 

 

[Doc Hudson]

Hi all, the wife’s been having slight electric shocks from the kitchen sink and my hot tubs Started coming up with an error gcf not grounded/earthed correctly. The tub works fine when plugged in to next doors extension. I’ve just fitted a new 4ft earth rod, replaced all the earth straps on the water pipes and fitted another earth cable from the fuse board to the earth rod. I think the shocks may have stopped But the error still appears no matter which socket I plug it into in my house. Any ideas as to what I should look at next would be greatly appreciated.

I would have thought the first thing to do would be to leave the tub completely disconnected while you verify the integrity of the existing earth arrangements, e.g. measure the earth loop impedance at the supply the circuit and socket that the tub connects onto. Considering that electrical faults can kill a healthy adult in less than half a second, just randomly plugging it into another socket could be lethal. It needs proper testing, if there is another fault on the system that you are not aware of, your extra wires could introduce additional dangers. The solution is leave it disconnected until you can get it tested correctly.

Doc H

 

[Murdoch]

The original bonding wasn’t the best, it was pretty much hot and cold pipe in the bathroom bonded, then the cold pipe in the kitchen went round the house to the gas pipe then from the gas pipe to the fuse board and then down to a rotten earth rod. The combi boiler had no bonding at all so I thought I’d add some to it and link the hot and cold down stairs for good measure. I’m struggling to get a spark to come to the house at the moment as the wife needs to self isolate. 

Slapping in a new rod means nothing unless it and the house earthing are tested properly

 

[Craigo]

Slapping in a new rod means nothing unless it and the house earthing are tested properly

Thank you, I may be wrong but I’ve got 3 separate ring mains in my house, cooker with extra socket, a single socket in the hallway and then the rest of the house. The mrs told me 6 months ago that she was getting shocks from the sink when the tap was running, although My father and I never felt them at all. They came and went according to her. About 3 weeks ago I fixed a leak underground on an old lead pipe in the outside toilet (not earthed) and felt the shocks as I put my hand under the puddle of water. This pipe is a separate feed from the house and can only be shut off from the main valve on the street ( under the grid that says “water”) shortly after this we’ve upgraded our hot tub. It’s an inflatable one and the main unit is housed in plastic with an inline thermo switch plus a cut out mode for earth safety. It’s not connected to the tub, no water involved at all, the unit works with an extension lead from next door but won’t work from any 3 of my ring mains even with  all the other fuses turned off. I’ve checked the earth from the board and added an extra 4mm earth from this direct to the earth rod( all I could get hold of otherwise it would be 10mm) I’ve also renewed all the bonding straps and added the heating pipes to the earth. I know I haven’t tested the new earth rod but I’m sure 4ft of copper is better than the rotten steel rod that I had. I’m very competent at anything I do and I know tests need to be done, but should I be looking at something else first because I’m sure just powering 1 single socket on it’s own With good a good earth from the board should be adequate. If not then please let me know????

 

[Murdoch]

Thank you, I may be wrong

 I know I haven’t tested the new earth rod but I’m sure 4ft of copper is better than the rotten steel rod that I had. I’m very competent at anything I do and I know tests need to be done, but should I be looking at something else first because I’m sure just powering 1 single socket on it’s own With good a good earth from the board should be adequate. If not then please let me know????

Please don't take this the wrong way but UNLESS its tested we are merely guessing ..........

Where are you based, you never know one of us may be near you

 

[UNG]

Hi all, the wife’s been having slight electric shocks from the kitchen sink and my hot tubs Started coming up with an error gcf not grounded/earthed correctly. The tub works fine when plugged in to next doors extension. I’ve just fitted a new 4ft earth rod, replaced all the earth straps on the water pipes and fitted another earth cable from the fuse board to the earth rod. I think the shocks may have stopped But the error still appears no matter which socket I plug it into in my house. Any ideas as to what I should look at next would be greatly appreciated.

The fact that your tub works on your neighbours extension clearly indicates your installation has problems that you are not going to solve without the appropriate test equipment

The original bonding wasn’t the best, it was pretty much hot and cold pipe in the bathroom bonded, then the cold pipe in the kitchen went round the house to the gas pipe then from the gas pipe to the fuse board and then down to a rotten earth rod. The combi boiler had no bonding at all so I thought I’d add some to it and link the hot and cold down stairs for good measure. I’m struggling to get a spark to come to the house at the moment as the wife needs to self isolate. 

How did you decide and come to the conclusion that the bonding wasn't the best

Thank you, I may be wrong but I’ve got 3 separate ring mains in my house, cooker with extra socket, a single socket in the hallway and then the rest of the house. The mrs told me 6 months ago that she was getting shocks from the sink when the tap was running, although My father and I never felt them at all. They came and went according to her. About 3 weeks ago I fixed a leak underground on an old lead pipe in the outside toilet (not earthed) and felt the shocks as I put my hand under the puddle of water. This pipe is a separate feed from the house and can only be shut off from the main valve on the street ( under the grid that says “water”) shortly after this we’ve upgraded our hot tub. It’s an inflatable one and the main unit is housed in plastic with an inline thermo switch plus a cut out mode for earth safety. It’s not connected to the tub, no water involved at all, the unit works with an extension lead from next door but won’t work from any 3 of my ring mains even with  all the other fuses turned off. I’ve checked the earth from the board and added an extra 4mm earth from this direct to the earth rod( all I could get hold of otherwise it would be 10mm) I’ve also renewed all the bonding straps and added the heating pipes to the earth. I know I haven’t tested the new earth rod but I’m sure 4ft of copper is better than the rotten steel rod that I had. I’m very competent at anything I do and I know tests need to be done, but should I be looking at something else first because I’m sure just powering 1 single socket on it’s own With good a good earth from the board should be adequate. If not then please let me know????

I really really think that despite the need to self isolate because of the virus I think the best self isolation you could do at the moment is turn your consumer unit off so you don't kill yourself or someone else until such time you can get an electrician in to check your installation. While you might believe earthing everything makes it safer it can also have the opposite effect and can in some cases be dangerous if you don't understand what you are doing. Over the last few years myself and another spark have found a number of earthing and supply faults that have been down to the DNO in one case it affected about a dozen houses in the road and none of them knew about it until we reported the fault on one property there was another where a spark put a rod in because the DNO earth was poor and ended up earthing a number of the adjacent properties to quote the DNO "good job there wasn't a big fault or there could have been a fire" both faults had the DNO digging up the road to resolve the faults

Just for a bit of information your rod is a 4ft piece of copper clad steel, with regard to being competent it is wise to know your limitations before you find out the hard way especially where water and electricity are involved

I would reiterate Murdoch's comment and post up your location as someone may be near to you

 

[apprentice87]

I’m very competent at anything I do and I know tests need to be done,

Deluded too.. Hate to tell you, you have not got a CLUE... I can guarantee you that there are things that all of us are thinking that you have not even mentioned. You knock in all the earth rods you like, that is not going to make any difference. You will NOT be able to fix this yourself, you definitely have not got the test equipment you need, and you do not know what you are doing..

I cannot believe that you would try guessing when people have already had shocks and there is a tub full of water in the garden involved.

and added an extra 4mm earth from this direct to the earth rod( all I could get hold of otherwise it would be 10mm)

Just that statement shows you do not have a clue..

Go get a "proper" electrician, before you kill someone...

john..

 

[ProDave]

@Craigo

You are not taking this seriously.

Your wife has been getting shocks from the sink for 6 months, you got a shock from a puddle of water, you are getting shocks from the hot tub.

I do not apologise for shouting the following:

UNPLUG AND DO NOT USE THE HOT TUB.  CALL A COMPETENT ELECTRICIAN TO TEST THE EARTHING AT AT LEAST THE BASIC INSTALLATION, AND UNTIL HE COMES, USE AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUM OF ELECTRICAL APPLIANCES.

You REALLY need to take this seriously and get a proper professional to look at it. Your installation sounds SERIOUSLY dangerous in the present state.

 

[Murdoch]

And there was me trying to be polite 

 

[Doc Hudson]

I’m very competent at anything I do and I know tests need to be done, but should I be looking at something else first because I’m sure just powering 1 single socket on it’s own With good a good earth from the board should be adequate. If not then please let me know????

You have already been told the answer it needs proper testing before you seriously injure or kill someone. If you were 'very competent' you would not be trying to avoid doing the appropriate tests to ensure safety. Unless you are concealing some other significant facts from your posts, with the information you have given so far, you appear to have little or no concept of electrical Earthing arrangements, or any concern for the safety of anyone using the property.

I may be wrong but I’ve got 3 separate ring mains in my house, cooker with extra socket,

That also sounds like you are wrong. I would be guessing the cooker is a radial?
 

I’ve checked the earth from the board

How? What was the earth loop impedance reading, or are you just talking "visual"? Which if so, is about as much use as a "visual" MOT test on a second hand car. There could be a whole list of issues you have missed so far. Stop messing around and look at safety of people, property & livestock. Not your misguided thoughts about the functions of electrical earthing, equipotential bonding and what items are exposed or extraneous conductive parts.  Back to basics, wiring regulations, (BS7671) states no alterations temporary or permanent should be undertaken without verifying the condition of the incoming supply & the earthing arrangements. If you do not have access to industry standard test meter(s) to verify this, then you need to seek professional help.

Doc H. 

 

[UNG]

And there was me trying to be polite 

When it comes to a life or death situation there is very little room to be polite. Killing yourself with your own stupidity is one thing but living with the consequences of killing someone else close to you through you stupidity is a different matter entirely

 

[Murdoch]

When it comes to a life or death situation there is very little room to be polite. Killing yourself with your own stupidity is one thing but living with the consequences of killing someone else close to you through you stupidity is a different matter entirely

Well, I don’t disagree with you but often this type is thread is from somebody with deep pockets, short arms and an internet quest to fix it themselves .....