How much to charge for EICR ?

[Steve3948]

30 Circuits, Wow, does that include completion of test certificate and locating un-marked circuits.

 

[Andy™]

That could backfire on you.

I once took my car for an MOT to my usual garage, but unknown to me it had changed ownership.

If failed on several very minor things, one of which was an exhaust hanger that needed about 1 minutes welding to fix it.

The useless new owner did not do welding. : headbang

I would rather take my car for MOT somewhere that had the means to fix it should it need it. I might not always choose to get them to fix it, but I want that option.

depends if your any good at fixing the problem yourself. i rarely get anyone else to fix any of my vehicles. only if its something i cant do or dont have the time to do

 

[davetheglitz]

To get down to a price some corners must be cut. The question is what is a reasonable cut?

I've been having thoughts from the dark side regarding testing:-

• On a lighting circuit what is the value of R1 + R2 as opposed to R2? If R2 measured by long lead on a 6A lighting is say 1 ohm and it's all metal chandeliers and ceiling spots what is the value of R1 + R2 or Zs? To measure it means disassembling - and what does it achieve? You won't know if you have disturbed anything on re-connection. On 6A with R2 at 1ohm the maximum voltage at exposed metalwork that could be present without tripping the MCB would be less than 10v. If we are worried about bad connections on R1 causing heating why are there no tests for Rn? Based on conductor sizes an estimated Zs/R1 + R2 could be written down.
• On a cooker/oven circuit the same argument could be applied. Often isolators are inaccessible and to access is difficult and time consuming. If r2 is say 0.3 ohms to the actual cooker metalwork what are the risks are in a calculated value?
• How do you know what the end of a circuit is - guess?
• How do you determine whether there are spurs off the ring on an old installation. The cross connection is great in theory - but with old circuits the variance on socket connection resistance makes this a guess at best!
• What is the risk in a domestic installation of > 26A being drawn off a spur - very small! Most double sockets are rated at 13A - surely this is a bigger risk!

The only way to guarantee a circuit is 100% testing - which means establishing how it is wired. Everything we do on an EICR is on a sample basis to reduce risk. What we need to do is mitigate the risks - and this may be simpler than we think.

Am I being stupid here?

 

[steptoe]

oh how I laugh when I see a cert with 100% stated as the inspected,

did he really crawl through the loft to verify there wasnt a tv amp booster socket up there, etc,

I only ever put >50%[at most] on any cert I do no matter how much I test/inspect .

 

[ProDave]

• On a cooker/oven circuit the same argument could be applied. Often isolators are inaccessible and to access is difficult and time consuming. If r2 is say 0.3 ohms to the actual cooker metalwork what are the risks are in a calculated value?
• How do you know what the end of a circuit is - guess?
• How do you determine whether there are spurs off the ring on an old installation. The cross connection is great in theory - but with old circuits the variance on socket connection resistance makes this a guess at best

Testing JUST R2 on a cooker could be meaningless. What if it were a dual fuel cooker. It's mains could be totally disconnected but you would be measuring the return via the gas pipe and bonding.  So no I wouldn't even think about just making an R2 measurement and extrapolating from that.

The end of the circuit it the furthest accessory, but if in doubt measure at several points and the one with the highest reading is the end,.

the figure 8 test is supposed to identify spurs. If the sockets are in that state that they are giving poor readings, suggest replacing them, or take measurements from the terminals on the back of the socket.

 

[Daniel Garnett]

I try not to concern my self with what others do, so long as I am giving my customer good value for money. I have just tested 3 properties for one customer on an hourly rate with a total of 68 circuits. Total cost £1600 plus Vat. Had I charged my usual £25 per circuit the cost would have been £1700 +

I allow 1 hour for testing each circuit, some circuits tested quicker than others. 

I notice the testing of 20% of the circuits is sometimes misunderstood, or at least to the way that i understand it. I have just seen a premises that is having 20% test every 5 years. With one customer I test 20% every year so that in 5 years they have a full set of test results and the testing continues this way every year.

Limitations are sometimes used excessively... or are they? if you wanted to get out of dead circuit tests at an installation (in order to be more competitive) remember that you are not permitted to carry out dead circuit tests on individual circuits within an energised distribution board because it involves avoidable live work. Unless the construction of the board provides a suitable form of separation. 

On another note; As insurance companies are insisting on reports more frequently it goes to say that we are putting our name to something that can be used against us in the event of an incident. I only have public liability insurance and I don't think this would help me in the event that the insurance company take me to court. I think its time to look into professional indemnity insurance or be a Ltd company, would hate to lose my house, any thoughts?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

On another note; As insurance companies are insisting on reports more frequently it goes to say that we are putting our name to something that can be used against us in the event of an incident. I only have public liability insurance and I don't think this would help me in the event that the insurance company take me to court. I think its time to look into professional indemnity insurance or be a Ltd company, would hate to lose my house, any thoughts?

You deffo want to get some PI, probably wont cost too much more on top of your PLI.

Guinness

 

[davetheglitz]

Testing JUST R2 on a cooker could be meaningless. What if it were a dual fuel cooker. It's mains could be totally disconnected but you would be measuring the return via the gas pipe and bonding.  So no I wouldn't even think about just making an R2 measurement and extrapolating from that.

The end of the circuit it the furthest accessory, but if in doubt measure at several points and the one with the highest reading is the end,.

the figure 8 test is supposed to identify spurs. If the sockets are in that state that they are giving poor readings, suggest replacing them, or take measurements from the terminals on the back of the socket.

Devils advocate here -

Re R2 and bonding - can see what you are getting at - but isn't this the same point if you were measuring Zs direct - which a lot of electricians consider the superior test?

Regarding furthest accessory - yes agree in principal - but with 10-15 ceiling spots and chandeliers how much work are you committing to? What is the gain?

A spur could be 2-3 metres - easily within varience of contact resistance. What of 13A 2G sockets - very common and just as much of a risk.

 

[binky]

haven't used R2 only for yonks, but it is listed as an acceptable test method, hence it is on the forms. Like Dave TG I reserve this for stupid lighting like chandeliers, which I have no desire to spend an hour takeing down and re-fitting. Using wander lead I use it to confirm earthing to metal fittings, but still use R1+R2 to light switch for that fitting.

 

[steptoe]

Chandeliers get a lightmate shoved in them from me .

 

[binky]

too tight fisted to buy those - crocodile clip £2.50, long length of single core £10 :slap

 

[davetheglitz]

too tight fisted to buy those - crocodile clip £2.50, long length of single core £10 :slap

Even more tight fisted - use ext lead at handy socket with earth connected through to MFT nulled at MET. Cost £0.00!!!

 

[steptoe]

i got a full set of lightmates and a banana plug socket thingie for 20£ , a couple of years ago, gumtree of somewhere like that, 

 

[Steve3948]

That was very cheap, I think they want about £12 each these days. Must have kit IMHO

 

[batty]

At a charity that I do work for one building had a PIR done a few years back all the readings were R2. I did do the fixes and will say some of the failed light fittings actually had a good connection to earth it was just the design of the fitting that gave a poor connection to earth.  

 

[albi]

I have just carried out a EICR on a installation with 75 circuits on completion they received the cert with photos of faults found, layout drawing of electrical points and all the circuits labeled i.e. switches and sockets ect all for £3k

This was the first time this company had used me and since I have done this work that have past my number on to a number of other company's on recommendation. I can't see the £8 gang doing all of this

 

[binky]

some clients care, some don't. Did some work for a tyre company with 20 branches around the SW. The electrics have never been tested in 20years the company has had the place (the gear i would say is 1950s - old 3 phase boards with a busbar per phase and lots on nasty things to stick your fingers in) . The owner ultimately doesn't give a **** except for the selfish accumalation of money!!

 

[callan]

£15-25 per cicrcuit. Sometimes out of hours work is unavoidable so factor this into your price. Not worth taking short cuts. It has your name on it so best to make sure your tests are complete.   

 

[Sidewinder]

Just put a price together today for an EICR of around £10k.

NO remedial works, JUST I&T.

 

[Phoenix]

What size site sidewinder?

And is that just electrical inspection? or machine tools control inspection as well?