Is It Worth It?

[kme]

Picked up a new commercial today - had a PIR 2 yrs. ago, by an ECA reg`d contractor.

I`m looking at the cert, and just wanted to check with anyone that might know....

The column on test results for R1+R2 or R2........Do they actually allow a tick to be the entry in that box?

Stupidly, I was thinking it might give me some idea as to the submain schedule in the building - naive or what!!!!

I`m MORE confused after reading it than I was when I started.

Final ccts with Zs half that of the DB supplying them.

Incomer Ze  /PSCC - "lim" ???

Page 3 - tick for all appropriate labelling at DBs - I`ve got a few that don`t even posess an identifier.

Oh - and no comment made that the incoming 2PN supply is coloured red/blk/blk - spooky.

TPN DB have been made into 2PNs, - not apparently noted anywhere.

I`ve got DBs with missing blanks; no main switch, no labelling, yet this muppet gives `em a "satisfactory".

Question is: is it worth my time trying to get the ECA to take any notice of the fact that this person doesn`t appear competent in filling in pieces of paper, let alone anything else?

Your thoughts, as always gang, appreciated................

 

[ProDave]

I'll have to remember that.  Some ticks, and some LIM's will vastly speed up the time it takes to do an EICR :coat

Last commercial EICR I did, I concluded the previous (NICEIC) test certificate was a work of pure fiction.

A complaint has got to be worthwhile, if just to make you feel better. But don't expect any action to be taken.

 

[wozz]

All I've ever heard about complaining is your wasting your breath. You could spend your time doing something more productive, like hoovering or cutting the grass.

As for a tick in r1 r2 , not sure may be ok, as a tick for a ring reading I think is ok!

 

[Steve3948]

I would not bother, I went to look at a possible remedial works last week, after a recent EICR (NAPPIT) was carried out, Lighting test results r1+r2 and r2, check at switch and find no CPC, check light fittings no CPC !!!!!

Also thing like Code 3 - Red and Black wires used ?

40M - 2.5 SWA to Garage on 30A Rewirable Fuse to a 2 Way Fuseboard in garage with 4 Twin Sockets and 3 Fluorescents and all he mentions is Code 3 No RCD protection.

I offered to do a proper test and inspection and the guy just said you seem more concerned about qualifications of others than pricing for what he's suggesting.

I later emailed him explaining that I would not be prepared to offer estimate prices on the recommendations and said I did not want to be involved, I received a fairly expected reply saying I was trying to make a small job into a big job.

I don't believe a tick for r1+r2 is acceptable it has to be a test result or for r2

 

[M107]

I was taught that actual figures need to be used on a PIR/EICR, how else can you determine any possible breakdown of the instaltion over time if just a tick is used.......

I've just done 10 flats  one had a report (IEE down load cert) from 2 years ago..........somebody must have nicked the 10mm MEB's & swapped the 60898's for 3036's between then & now.

As for complaining you might aswel try, after all the scheme operators keep banging on about wanting to tighten up the industry.... :slap

 

[kme]

OK - thanks for the responses.

We`ll give it a go - I`ve also always been told that R1+R2 / R2 needs to be a specific result.

Oh, btw: 

MCB blank missing - does not meet IP rating - code 2

Socket grommet missing does not meet IP - code 2

Socket requires securing - code 2

various light fittings requre fixing to cieling ( his spelling) - code 2

supplemental bonds missing from sink - code 2

lighting in room xxx - various open connectors - room 2

And that is it for page 2

page 3: tick boxes

Eartihng for combined protective & functional - N/A - I assume he doesn`t count RCBos........

Segregation of band 1 & 2 - that gets an X - but not mentioned on P2

Segregation of safety circuits - gets a N/A - even though there`re fire alarms, em. lighting, fire suppression systems, etc.

:shakehead   :C   :slap

 

[Badger]

all i can say to that post kme is :slap :slap

 

[binky]

complain, ideally get customer to do it - they take far more notice of customers, but don't alter anything until ECA engineer has a chance to view it.

 

[wozz]

Maybe i was thinking of the minor works form where it just has a tick box for earth continuity.

GN3 says a loop impedance test is ok for ensuring continuity so if they have recorded a Zs, they have have then ticked the R2.  If you catch my drift? 

 

[kerching]

Right now, bear with me on this one....you will need

1 washing up bowl 3/4 full of water. NO MORE!

Your right arm, sleeves rolled up

1) put your elbow in the water and wait for no more than 5 seconds ( this IS as important as the existing certificate)

2). Remove your elbow

The size of the hole left in the water is directly proportional to the interest that any scam provider will show

...just saying

 

[wozz]

Right now, bear with me on this one....you will need

1 washing up bowl 3/4 full of water. NO MORE!

Your right arm, sleeves rolled up

1) put your elbow in the water and wait for no more than 5 seconds ( this IS as important as the existing certificate)

2). Remove your elbow

The size of the hole left in the water is directly proportional to the interest that any scam provider will show

...just saying

correct.

I couldnt get out of my head where i had seen a tick for a ring circuit and i found it in the 16th, the 17th requires end to end readings on the model forms.

 

[Evans Electric]

The general conception is that scammers don't really want to hear anything bad about their members .  Although each year the NICEIC lists members removed from the roll, the new boys on the block are yet to show their hand, it would seem.

 

[Sharpend]

Would it be worth a letter to the PE rag as they seem to have a keen interest in ECA or alternatively a letter to the ESC asking for their assistance, send the letter to the ECA as a 'copy to', this way it looks as though you are not having a direct pop at the ECA but are just highlighting a discrepancy???

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

All I've ever heard about complaining is your wasting your breath. You could spend your time doing something more productive, like hoovering  the grass.

Fixed that for you  :Salute

 

[kme]

Welllllllllll.............

A "senior membership administrator" has emailed back, requesting the name of the contractor; which I sent......

He then asked if I could email the cert to them - so 23 pages of "scan to pdf" later ( the adf wanted to take the pages 3 at a time ), and they`ve got their wish...

Mmmmm.....redact it, and sent to PE, with a CC to ESC - might be worth a punt. Maybe they could start a new monthly topic:

" How NOT to fill in paperwork" :slap