Riggy
Senior Member
Did I really say that? Really?
Am I Missing Something, Or Was Everyone Else Missing It?
- Thread starter kme
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well,
I have just had an email confirming my quote for work has been accepted, even though its about twice the normal price due to someone previous putting stuff in that was non compliant, I didnt want the job, advised the client so, and told them to get at least 3 quotes, one of which would probably be half mine as they probably wouldnt sort out the previous bad work, and they should get back to original sparks about that,
they cant be bothered with original sparks, just want me to sort it, and are thankful I have told them, but will be writing a letter to TS and original sparks about it, [dunno how that works if they are getting me to rectify.! :C ]
on saying that, its a domestic, with perhaps 500£ of works to fix, not a few grand as seen here.
still, if we continually turn a blind eye to these woeful cowboy installs then people will continue to have them done without knowing any different.
I have just had an email confirming my quote for work has been accepted, even though its about twice the normal price due to someone previous putting stuff in that was non compliant, I didnt want the job, advised the client so, and told them to get at least 3 quotes, one of which would probably be half mine as they probably wouldnt sort out the previous bad work, and they should get back to original sparks about that,
they cant be bothered with original sparks, just want me to sort it, and are thankful I have told them, but will be writing a letter to TS and original sparks about it, [dunno how that works if they are getting me to rectify.! :C ]
on saying that, its a domestic, with perhaps 500£ of works to fix, not a few grand as seen here.
still, if we continually turn a blind eye to these woeful cowboy installs then people will continue to have them done without knowing any different.
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
For what it's worth here's my tuppence.
If we discover something that is wrong, then it is our duty as professionals to bring it to the attention of our client. We have to then consider the clients take on it, if they are concerned and wish to progress a complaint then we can offer our professional assistance, if however if the customer is not interested in progressing any complaint then we can only offer our professional sevices to correct the situation.
Ultimately it is the client who decides how far or not they want to go.
I see very little point in trying to assist those that don't want it- wasted energy, but those who want the assistance will get it- constructive energy.
Whilst we may not always agree with their decision it is ultimately their decision.
That's my tuppence!!
If we discover something that is wrong, then it is our duty as professionals to bring it to the attention of our client. We have to then consider the clients take on it, if they are concerned and wish to progress a complaint then we can offer our professional assistance, if however if the customer is not interested in progressing any complaint then we can only offer our professional sevices to correct the situation.
Ultimately it is the client who decides how far or not they want to go.
I see very little point in trying to assist those that don't want it- wasted energy, but those who want the assistance will get it- constructive energy.
Whilst we may not always agree with their decision it is ultimately their decision.
That's my tuppence!!
another one, ?Canoeboy said:
OK,
well, when AGGIE starts up I'll be sending her round to yours, after all, you did tell me to go get one,.........
OK - some valid points coming up here.
I`ve got 2 main considerations here, from my personal perspective, plus other "peripheral" considerations.
In the first instance: If this client wants us to handle their maintenance, then I want things to be technically correct. IF it goes bang, and I accepted it on the grounds that it had been there this long already - I`m as bad as those that have gone there before me.
Secondly - I need to speak to the client with respect to costs, and their willingness (or lack of) to pursue the matter against previous installers. IF they wish to go that route, I will support them however I can. If they aren`t interested, for whatever reason - that is THEIR decision ( I have already reported the guy who did the last PIR - cos its nonsense...)
Snakey - I agree with, and accept your position in this, in an ideal scenario. Life isn`t ideal. I`d love nothing better than to force all the incompetents out of our trade, but its never going to happen, without a HUGE shift in governmental perceptions, and a corresponding change in the way schemes are operated. The client, and the install, must be the first priority........
Regarding the genny: I haven`t looked inside it - dunno if it generates 480, or 240, or what.
But written clarification of the supply characteristics would be advantageous, whatever the client wishes to do.
I`ve got 2 main considerations here, from my personal perspective, plus other "peripheral" considerations.
In the first instance: If this client wants us to handle their maintenance, then I want things to be technically correct. IF it goes bang, and I accepted it on the grounds that it had been there this long already - I`m as bad as those that have gone there before me.
Secondly - I need to speak to the client with respect to costs, and their willingness (or lack of) to pursue the matter against previous installers. IF they wish to go that route, I will support them however I can. If they aren`t interested, for whatever reason - that is THEIR decision ( I have already reported the guy who did the last PIR - cos its nonsense...)
Snakey - I agree with, and accept your position in this, in an ideal scenario. Life isn`t ideal. I`d love nothing better than to force all the incompetents out of our trade, but its never going to happen, without a HUGE shift in governmental perceptions, and a corresponding change in the way schemes are operated. The client, and the install, must be the first priority........
Regarding the genny: I haven`t looked inside it - dunno if it generates 480, or 240, or what.
But written clarification of the supply characteristics would be advantageous, whatever the client wishes to do.
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I suppose at design stage, the request to the DNO could have been for 2 Phase (4 Wire) but DNO supplied Split Phase (3 Wire).
The guy's on site not being in the loop, most likely never even gave it a thought, not paid to think is the excuse normally.
Well done KME for spotting this, I keep asking myself if I would have picked this up and my honest answer is, on measuring the voltage then maybe on a good day my brain would have been thinking what impact does this have, on a bad day it may have slipped through due to the many dead brain cells I now have. It's not something you come across every day of the week and you need to have your A game in force.
Sh*t I'm now incompetent.
The guy's on site not being in the loop, most likely never even gave it a thought, not paid to think is the excuse normally.
Well done KME for spotting this, I keep asking myself if I would have picked this up and my honest answer is, on measuring the voltage then maybe on a good day my brain would have been thinking what impact does this have, on a bad day it may have slipped through due to the many dead brain cells I now have. It's not something you come across every day of the week and you need to have your A game in force.
Sh*t I'm now incompetent.
Don`t feel bad - is everyone doing work there actually going to measure phase-phase voltage? I`ll bet not many do - they see two phases, and automatically assume 400V nominal!
I was lucky that I`d already spotted the 2 wire HV; and I`ve come across this supply once before - a long time ago..........
I was lucky that I`d already spotted the 2 wire HV; and I`ve come across this supply once before - a long time ago..........
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I generally test voltage between phases and nutral and earth to ensure I have conductors the correct way round before doing anything else. When doing three phase last thing you need is a neutral mixed with a phase. I know an old sparks did this on an emergency call out and when it was powered up it caused thousands of pounds of damage.
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Another thought occurred to me, you say the HV transformer is on the property so I'm guessing it's a short incomer, do you have a pefc and pscc test result at the main 250A TPN DB? I'm guessing all switchgear might need to be 25kA or > Icu/Ics rated. Do the existing MCB's/Isolators comply? Just thought it might be another possible non-compliance issue.
Yes, I have.
Supply is TN-C-S; so both the same - phase - neutral is 6KA....The main switch disconnect is 25KA rated anyway. Good thinking
Supply is TN-C-S; so both the same - phase - neutral is 6KA....The main switch disconnect is 25KA rated anyway. Good thinking
No mate - that`s for single phase, iirc.
TP can be substantially more, I believe.........
Update on this:
Clarification of supply parameters from DNO - Aug 2001 they supplied 460V nominal split phase.
A large, fairly reputable local NICEIC approved contractor company installed 3 no. TP boards in 2002; and their cert. specifies supply characteristic as 230/400
Then an ECA contractor did a PIR in 2010, and again states 230/400.
Client is absolutely fuming over this!!! (not with me )
TP can be substantially more, I believe.........
Update on this:
Clarification of supply parameters from DNO - Aug 2001 they supplied 460V nominal split phase.
A large, fairly reputable local NICEIC approved contractor company installed 3 no. TP boards in 2002; and their cert. specifies supply characteristic as 230/400
Then an ECA contractor did a PIR in 2010, and again states 230/400.
Client is absolutely fuming over this!!! (not with me
)
Technical issues aside, there's going to be a lot of finger pointing about who's humped the pooch and who hasn't. It's beginning to sound like one of those jobs where it's going to get messy and it would be handy to maintain an exit strategy. Also if you do get involved in remedial work make sure you stay ahead of the game with your payments. We've learned the hard way in the past with jobs like this, nobody likes to pay for the stuff-ups from over 10 years ago and it's always problems getting settlement.
thinking aloud about the pfc, i take it you cannot measure phase to phase pfc, so would usually double to get your phase phase pfc, does this still stand for split phase? or should it be more than doubled? or should it be measured?
Not that I think it will be a problem, just curious.
Not that I think it will be a problem, just curious.
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
Call on Dom, he's good at tracing yeeeeeehaaaaaa's.
He'll probably get the attention of the necessaries, although not sure how happy he'd be slating the Niccy? Old friends by all accounts?
He'll probably get the attention of the necessaries, although not sure how happy he'd be slating the Niccy? Old friends by all accounts?
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