Am I Missing Something, Or Was Everyone Else Missing It?

[kerching]

May I just say......

This is how a correctly worded and responded to question , supported by intelligent contribution and facts, should be posted my responsible adults.

......just saying

 

[kme]

Thanks Kerch - agree 100%

I have spoken to one of the designers at DNO.....awaiting response.

Basically, I think their problem is that they`ve only got 2 wire HV, so have given us, essentially, a centre-tapped neutral similar to the standard USA 110-0-110; or site supplies 55-0-55. So I don`t think they can "tweak" the voltage, without affecting our 230 (240) incoming voltage with respect to neutral.

I`m wondering if they could change the tranny, so that we only get SP, but at a higher current ( they`ve run a 4 core in, so would be able to double-up on conductors if need be.

The pole mounted TX is on the hotel`s land.

I like the idea of the Glasgow / MEM solution - similar idea to the 2 big MCCBs, and feed each DB as single phase. Need to look into this......

 

[kerching]

Mmmmmmm

I know as much about this as I do about women but....

I sometimes lurk on a USA yippeeee Kai. Ay. Blue on blue. Site and when they have a centre tapped neutral and it goes all moody on them it cause gnashing of teeth and smoke emission

Never can get my head around USA electrics.......

Just saying

 

[Marvo]

How are the genny windings configured and are they reconfigurable? What is the genny output voltage and can it be altered. If they tinker with the supply voltage then the genny output, if it's 480v 180deg split phase, might still mean retrofitting of the switchgear is still necessary so there may be little or no advantage. Maybe making all the boards single phase would be a better option but this might depend on the cabling scheme, are the sub boards supplied with 3 or 4 wire?

 

[Sidewinder]

Ignoring the technical aspects for a moment.

You MUST get formal written (email will do) confirmation that the supply is split phase.

Then get a screen dump of the WPD web page, or better get the confirmation of the split phase spec in the email.

Then you must get confirmation from the equipment manufacturers again in writing (email), with regard to the suitability of the equipment for the supply system.

Once you have this then you can look at the technicalities.

IF you only have single phase loads.

Then you could go the switch fuse route supplying 1ph DB's fine.

There other manufacturers kit that is rated at 490/660V a.c.

IF the kit is not suitably rated, and the supply is as suspected & you have this in writing.

Your next step should be to get copies of the original install certificates.

From there you should write to the premises owner and advise them that they should contact their solicitor to make a claim against the original installers PII as the installer was not competent as he did not select suitable equipment, thus the original design was not in compliance with BS7671, with a copy to the scheme provider if there is one.

You need to tread carefully, systematically, and ensure that you have a full electronic & "paper" trail for your actions.

It seems here that the original installer was not competent to design the system in accordance with the supply characteristics and BS7671, thus he should not be trading and acting in such a fraudulent manner.

Next step should be that the client should contact their solicitors and make a claim against the previous "undertakers" of PIR's on the premises again against their PII as they were not competent to inspect as this was not identified, in parallel a complaint must to be made to the scheme provider of the previous inspectors.

It is patently obvious that none were competent to work on this install.

Thus the client has been exposed to unnecessary risk and has been forced to trade in breach of their insurance and licencing conditions due to the incompetence of previous contractors.

The client has responsibility in law to select competent contractors, which they have not, thus the previous contractors can mitigate the situation, but, to do so would admit their own incompetence.

As soon as you have the confirmation of the situation then if, it is as suspected, you MUST write to the client and advise them of the manufacturers comments, as once these are received, then they will have confirmation that they are trading uninsured.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Thank you for starting this thread. I only was aware of split phase when i looked into my brothers electrics in Canada a few years ago. Being a townie i have never  heard of this, come across it nor been taught it so  was not aware of it in the UK.   I have spoken to a few other experienced sparkies and none of them had heard of split phase either.

 

[steptoe]

Thank you for starting this thread. I only was aware of split phase when i looked into my brothers electrics in Canada a few years ago. Being a townie i have never  heard of this, come across it nor been taught it so  was not aware of it in the UK.   I have spoken to a few other experienced sparkies and none of them had heard of split phase either.

+1

its deffo an interesting topic,

as I said, I'd never come across it before until I was working in England, only ever saw or worked on 120degree 2 phase before that,

and,

I would not have thought about the possibilities of 480V across phases,

 

[kerching]

+1

its deffo an interesting topic,

as I said, I'd never come across it before until I was working in England, only ever saw or worked on 120degree 2 phase before that,

and,

I would not have thought about the possibilities of 480V across phases,

As Steps said....never seen it before

I have seen plenty of 2 phase (120 degree ). As they used to use it on a lot of welding kit BUT it was 2 phases taken from a 3 phase service.

In the words of the bloke of R & Ms Laugh- in........" Vellly Interesting ". ( readers under the age of about 40 will probably not understand this )

Just ageing........

 

[Riggy]

As said, an interesting discussion, but I do wonder how some of you sleep at night worrying about such things. Chill out, if you go down the gathering evidence/solicitor's letter route you will have right on your side, and very likely no customer!

 

[Sidewinder]

Wrong Riggy, you are protecting your customer.

How would you feel if you were lied to and put in the situation by one of your trusted suppliers that put you in the situation of trading illegally due to their incompetence?

 

[Riggy]

No Sidewinder I'm not wrong, I merely have a different view to yours, that's not the same thing!

 

[Sidewinder]

Well in that case we will have to disagree on this point.

Incompetent persons like this trading fraudulently should be drummed out of the trade.

BTW you did not answer my question directly to you.

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF ONE OF YOUR SUPPLIERS WAS SO INCOMPETENT & INVOICED YOU FRAUDULENTLY THAT RESULTED IN YOU BREAKING THE LAW?

 

[Riggy]

Don't shout at me.

 

[Sidewinder]

Well you obviously were not prepared to, listen to my first post, so I HAD TO!

 

[Steve3948]

Well I had something similar last week and was told by the customer "Why are you so concerned about the competence of others, instead of offering me a solution" when I replied it's because you have paid for something that's not correct and I'm trying to establish why you should be paying twice, his reply was "forget it, I will get someone else", I walked away thinking what the hell was that all about.

On reflection I should have just given him the price, and not try and save him money.

I think forget what's gone by, now a potential issue has been detected, offer to correct it, don't make enemies life's to short for that, best to know you and your family can sleep at night. Just my thoughts.

 

[wozz]

agreed. sides did say client to contact solicitor if they say 'cant be bothered just sort it'  then no problem, its not like you are going to hire your own legal team is it!  if they do want to do something about it they will, but its not like you are going to have much to do with it anyway.  

 

[Riggy]

Well you obviously were not prepared to, listen to my first post, so I HAD TO!

 If by "listen to" you mean "read and consider", then of course I did. If "listen to" means "follow devoutly and do not question" then of course I didn't. I understand your view, your approach is not for me. Does that make me wrong? Does expressing a different view compel me to answer your questions? Mercy me!

 

[Sidewinder]

This just reinforces why I'm not here much these days.

Bye.

 

[Riggy]

This just reinforces why I'm not here much these days.

Bye.

Me too!

 

[Sidewinder]

Just one last comment, I am disgusted that any competent person would support an obviously incompetent previous contractor in deference to their client whom they have a legal duty to.

Amazing standpoint that I just cannot fathom.

I would ALWAYS protect my client after my company.

Stuff the obviously incompetent idiots that went before who are fraudulently taking work from competent reasons.

It seems Riggy that your standpoint is unclear, defend the idiot not your client, that does not seem a very professional standpoint tou are taking there in your own words.

I would not be able to sleep at night if I were not prepared to defend & support my client to the best of my ability.

If you are willing to ignore your clients best interests, then good luck, but it is not something Im prepared to do.

I would not be prepared to comment what I consider of a company that is prepared to ignore their clients best interests in this manner.

Hence my disgust with regard to your comments.

If you can sleep well at night ignoring the fact that you do not put your clients interest above those of the previous idiots then good luck to you. I will NEVER do this as due to my professional integrity would not let me do this.