Is This Acceptable?

[ultinator]

does adding a socket to the exterior of the house fall into the the notification category as it only seems to refer to outdoors as 'garden' but it isnt technically 'in' garden as it is ON the house?

 

[sellers]

If your installing lights and sockets without wires then I dont think you need part p!

 

[Evans Electric]

Altimeter , if joking may I sugest you make use of the Smileys .........not as silly as they may appear as they indicate what  we can't interpret in cold print .    So...... :innocent .......or :coat ........  or     

...........or even ..

 

[sellers]

Going a little off topic,

how do you get a reputation of 8 with 2 negative against you and no positive?

 

[ultinator]

righto :Salute

Don't really use smileys. Anyway im sure you will be relieved to hear I will be using cable....the wireless thing was too..... rudimentary.
But genuinely as it is outdoors it would naturally be IP rated, but are there any instances where work outside isnt notifiable.

And as to the rating thing, who knows perhaps the system can see through your prejudices or maybe it hasn't updated the negative votes  :B-

 

[sellers]

who knows?

Maybe if you explain your situation we may be able to help you out on the price.  A company employing a few guys is always dearer than a 1 man band, and a 1 man band is always dearer than someone doing jobs on the side.

 

[ultinator]

worked with guy, guy paid poorly but I kept at it, he never said how he quoted as he didnt want me seeing exactly how much he was making off me. work dwindling his side,Ive had a couple of offers of work from friends , registered elecsa recently awaiting assessment in order to undertake the jobs. I am doing the lights as MW and am wondering whether all outdoor work is notifyable - if so then i will save the socket till later..

but yeah I understand the principal of making a quote its just sometimes things look too expensive and i think maybe its too much, the guy who referred me to this job said i was £80 per lighting point, so by that rationale surely an outdoor socket would be more than 80 so is £350 reasonable, should my price reduce if some of the install was easier than expected?

 

[Doc Hudson]

Approved document P should be a book or download that every person undertaking work within the scope of Part P has access to. Notifiable work is listed and specific mention of outside sockets is made in bullet point j. Any trader considering taking money from a client should be familiar with all regulations applicable to work they intend undertaking. It is quite shocking that 7+ years since part P was introduced that there are still "electricians" asking what work is or isn't notifiable. Students on college courses are expected to ask, but a paying customer should be entitled to getting a competent person with knowledge of current applicable regulations. (external sockets are notifiable) If damp gets into the socket tripping off the RCD in the house the customer will be none to pleased if you fail to fit an isolator as well!

Doc H.    

 

[ultinator]

ok thanks. 
My parents had 2 outdoor sockets added (not by me) with no RCD, no Isolating switch. He was also nice enough to replace a faulty 6a mcb with a 16a which he had knocking around. it seems alot of people are ignorant to part p and the regulations in place..
anyway, I think it was my laziniess that progressed this thread to where it is, I really only was seeking advice with quotes, but inadvertently brought up part p. :C

 

[ProDave]

Pricing a job is really quite simple.

First you need to work out for YOUR circumstances how much you NEED to earn each hour. That's your hourly labour rate.

As a sanity check compare that to what others in your locality are charging so make sure you are within the local range.

Estimate how long you think the job will take, allowing time to get to and from the job. That works out how much to charge for your labour.

Estimate how much the materials will coast, then add a mark up so you are making a bit of profit on them.

That's all there is to it. 

 

[Doc Hudson]

ok thanks. 

My parents had 2 outdoor sockets added (not by me) with no RCD, no Isolating switch. He was also nice enough to replace a faulty 6a mcb with a 16a which he had knocking around. it seems alot of people are ignorant to part p and the regulations in place..

anyway, I think it was my laziniess that progressed this thread to where it is, I really only was seeking advice with quotes, but inadvertently brought up part p. :C

"Replace a faulty 6a with a 16a?"  did this also involve replacing the wiring on the circuit? Knowing the regulations that are applicable to a job, are needed for ensuring you are pricing correctly. If a person is not able to self certify their work for Part P then they need to include to costs of notifying the LABC separately. Generally the only persons ignorant to regulations that have been in effect for over 7 years are those who have no regard for any regulations, including BS7671 they probably don't issue any certificates or have any paper trail to that fact that they have been on site. If you think you can do the work and make a reasonable profit at £250 and you customer is happy then go for it. Others may be happier making £100+ more to help cover their overheads, (fuel insurance, admin, TAX, tools wear & tear etc.)

Doc H.

 

[Marvo]

luckily I think there is a couple of 'small' things going on over the road so im aiming to be there aswell, 

what is......part p??

 

....... I think part p is a nuisance and so never done it, I just write any old scribble on a napkin and hand it over as testing and invoice
does adding a socket to the exterior of the house fall into the the notification category as it only seems to refer to outdoors as 'garden' but it isnt technically 'in' garden as it is ON the house?

....but are there any instances where work outside isnt notifiable.

......He was also nice enough to replace a faulty 6a mcb with a 16a which he had knocking around

This has to be a wind-up surely.

 

[Evans Electric]

Approved document P should be a book or download that every person undertaking work within the scope of Part P has access to. Notifiable work is listed and specific mention of outside sockets is made in bullet point j. Any trader considering taking money from a client should be familiar with all regulations applicable to work they intend undertaking. It is quite shocking that 7+ years since part P was introduced that there are still "electricians" asking what work is or isn't notifiable. Students on college courses are expected to ask, but a paying customer should be entitled to getting a competent person with knowledge of current applicable regulations. (external sockets are notifiable) If damp gets into the socket tripping off the RCD in the house the customer will be none to pleased if you fail to fit an isolator as well!

Doc H.    

Doc,  When I did the 17th edition thingy , only one person in the class had any idea about Part Pee , 20 in the class .

It was raised when I was asked " Whats an old Phart like you doing on the course?"      

My answer " I'm forced to do it or I lose my ELECSA membership...Part Pee and all that "     

"Part P ..whats about then ?"   Was the general query. 

 

[ProDave]

It's obvious Deke, they all did commercial, and you were the only one on the course doing domestic work. :innocent

 

[Sharpend]

Either that or they were all Scots!!!

 

[Evans Electric]

Are you kidding ?  With reference to where I am , of the 20  , 3 were white english ( including me)   2 were Poles who came for 1/2 hour and left again , the others were Asian,Sikh, West Indian and an African guy .

Only myself was Self employed,  no one knew what Pyro was or stroboscopic effects plus a lot more .  The 2 white guys were general maintenance guys for a hotel chain , mostly plumbing I think.    

 

[Steve3948]

I did'nt bother with course just sat the exam, on my own, only one in the room.

 

[Sharpend]

Steve is that coz they caught you cheating on the 16th??

Deke, it was the 17th edition of electrical regs, not the 17th English Citizenship regulation test??

 

[Doc Hudson]

Doc,  When I did the 17th edition thingy , only one person in the class had any idea about Part Pee , 20 in the class .

It was raised when I was asked " Whats an old Phart like you doing on the course?"      

My answer " I'm forced to do it or I lose my ELECSA membership...Part Pee and all that "     

"Part P ..whats about then ?"   Was the general query. 

You can only assume these "electricians" doing a 17th edition course don't have access to a copy of the On Site Guide either then? As since the 17th edition was published the OSG has a small section at the beginning of it, about building regulations and the need for compliance with electrical work in England and Wales. (and it gives guidance about where free copies of the approved documents can be downloaded from!). Hence my earlier comment that every electrician doing chargeable work for customers 'should' at least have access to a copy of BS7671, OSG and App Doc P, as they all refer to each other. So persons ignorant to the existence of Part P possibly may also be ignorant to the existence of OSG & BS7671 or maybe have just never read them?

Doc H.

 

[ultinator]

4 lights for £200 in the end, loft was boarded n all,
done a bit for a mate over the road too, it was 4 lights, place switch, 4 new socket fronts and a new socket in a bedroom £100 only made £40 off that