Joining a part p scheme

[Mike watts]

Hi guys. Im mike 48. Iv been working in property maintenance for 20 years in the uk. Domestic commercial retail. In 2009 i got some electrical city and guilds qualifications to allow me to betrer understand electrics when i worked in a factory doing maintenance. I did the 17th edition and level 2 and 3 city and guilds 100/6302/7. So i now want to do domestic notifiable and non notifiabl jobs. Iv contacted many of the part p scheme companies who say i need 2391 to certify my own jobs. Can anybody tell me if the papers i already have and 18th edition will get me on any of the schemes. Also the want to see 12 months previous jobs i have done. How can i have 12 months of jobs if im not registered. 

 

[Murdoch]

I would recommend you call Elecsa/NICEIC and Napit/Stroma and see what they say - I believe they may be tightening up their entry "criteria"

2391 is a red herring ....................... AFAIK, as a cleared cheque normally is enough

You will need to show new work as part of an assessment

 

[Mike watts]

I would recommend you call Elecsa/NICEIC and Napit/Stroma and see what they say - I believe they may be tightening up their entry "criteria"

2391 is a red herring ....................... AFAIK, as a cleared cheque normally is enough

You will need to show new work as part of an assessment

 

[Mike watts]

I did contact some of them as i said in my post. Anyway part p only covers jobs in bathrooms, new circuits and new consumer units. I can do lots of work without going near these areas. If i want to do full rewires i can pay building control to do my test and certification 

 

[Murdoch]

You'd be surprised how many jobs actually do need new circuits or work in bathrooms.

It's sad that the Muppets writing the rules are simply driving people away from being sparks who are registered.

With non notifiable work you will still need to issue certificates for a lot of non notifiable work and have proper test kit, up to date regs, certificate software etc and insurance

 

[Mike watts]

Yes thats fine by me. 

 

[Murdoch]

Yes thats fine by me. 

so you have all the kit etc to do it properly?

 

[Andy™]

Also the want to see 12 months previous jobs i have done. How can i have 12 months of jobs if im not registered. 

easy... follow the requires of part P... notify LABC and get them to sign it off

or show them the job, pass assessment then notify it.... not the proper way though

 

[Evans Electric]

I did contact some of them as i said in my post. Anyway part p only covers jobs in bathrooms, new circuits and new consumer units. I can do lots of work without going near these areas. If i want to do full rewires i can pay building control to do my test and certification 

Do whatever that work is  and use it as your assessment job  .    Fill in a non - scheme certificate to show the assessor . 

Get all the other necessary stuff they require ,   PL insurance /  Regs book/ recalibrate  certs for meters ,  multi meter  or Loop  / continuity./ Insulation/  RCD tester. 

Have some quotes examples ready /  sounds daft but a mains tester /  copy of the Electricity at Work act   1985 /   demonstrate that you know what you're talking about and the big thing ...as Murdo  said ..... get the cheque off . 

ELECSA used to accept one job  ...you probably get away with two at the most .  

You will find that its not economic to get work signed off by LBC  ,,,they will send an NICEIC  guy ..... and one job is usually the same as your annual fee to a scheme . 

Builders won't use you unless you are registered to sign off .

Can't think of anything else .  

 

[Mike watts]

I have 18th edition and city & guilds 2330 levels 2 and 3. I got those in 2010. Back then they were enough to join a part p gang. Now i phoned 3 schemes up to be told a domestic installer now needs 2391. WTGrape. 

so you have all the kit etc to do it properly?

Yes. 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I have 18th edition and city & guilds 2330 levels 2 and 3. I got those in 2010. Back then they were enough to join a part p gang. Now i phoned 3 schemes up to be told a domestic installer now needs 2391. WTGrape. 

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anybody here says...

It's what the scheme you intend joining say...

I think you've answered your own question.

:C    

 

[OnOff]

I have 18th edition and city & guilds 2330 levels 2 and 3. I got those in 2010. Back then they were enough to join a part p gang. Now i phoned 3 schemes up to be told a domestic installer now needs 2391. WTGrape. 

Same quals here mate plus the EAL Part P one. The 2330 is universally looked down upon for some reason. I was gutted when after 3 years of night school the college then mentioned going onto do the 235* whatever. Mind we had Tony Cable in giving us the NICEIC spiel the minute we'd finished L3 2330 and I could have indeed joined back then with just that and the 17th I had. 

I know some right thick c**** with the 235* and they know jack but hey, they've got an NVQ! 

Try phoning Swanley & getting an ECS card if you want a laugh. I think I qualify to carry someone else's tool bag.

Why not go and do the 2391? I will at some point. 

Keep praying for Death or 6 numbers like I do.

 

[Murdoch]

Interesting they have raised the bar to the 2391 for all new entrants

Wonder if the short course providers are telling their candidates this rather important fact

 

[OnOff]

Interesting they have raised the bar to the 2391 for all new entrants

Wonder if the short course providers are telling their candidates this rather important fact

80% required to pass isn't it rather than 60%?

I can't help feeling it's all just a money making scam. I felt the 18th was deliberately harder than the 17th. The questions imo were worded to catch people out not teach. I got 98 something % on the 17th but only 93 on the 18th.

 

[tomsw18]

Hi Mike - I'm in a similar position to you. I've been in the industry for more than 20 years but not as an electrician. (Control Panel Wireman, Design Engineer, Commissioning Engineer, Project Manager, etc. - now just looking to be able to work locally and able to do school runs.)

Anyway, for the assessment works, you can work on your own house. This was confirmed by both NICEIC and NAPIT. (BTW - I think I'll end up going with NICEIC as it's more recognised by Commercial/industrial clients.)

I've added an FCU and spurred off a socket in my bin room which was a nice simple job with surface mounted trunking. Found that the original install never earthed the existing metal clad FCU (which feeds the existing socket and external lights). The existing wiring was twin & earth inside the conduit so I'm going to replace that when I start the wiring, but I need to buy my test equipment and certificate software next (any recommendations anyone, please?) 

And a neighbour wants me to install a new socket in his bedroom which is a nice simple job spurring off an existing socket in the wardrobe. That is sufficient in the eyes of the assessors.

I've booked a 2391-52 course which I'm doing online and hope to complete in a couple of months. It is with XS Training which is the only place I found that does it online as I've had quite a lot of testing experience already and it saves me taking another week off work.

I can pass on the details if you want.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I've added an FCU and spurred off a socket in my bin room which was a nice simple job with surface mounted trunking. 

And a neighbour wants me to install a new socket in his bedroom which is a nice simple job spurring off an existing socket in the wardrobe. That is sufficient in the eyes of the assessors.

Are you sure they will accept the jobs you are describing?

Both of those could be accounted for on a Minor Works Certificate..

Which AFAIK have never been acceptable jobs for an assessment..

(as generally minor works are not notifiable.)

I've been self employed for over 21years now...

Had to join up to self certification my jobs when Part-p was introduced in 2006...

(so must have had 14 annual assessments done now..)

The guidance used to be two jobs, one of which should be a fuse-box and possibly a second could be new circuit..  (preferably 2x CU replacements)

But basically needs to be works that require a FULL Electrical Installation Certificate..   Not a MWC.

As it's impossible to assess if a person is competent at replacing a CU Testing & Certifying the works..

If you've only seen a minor addition/alteration.

I haven't looked at current criteria, (as never had to), but if you can genuinely be assessed as competent to self certify Part-P notifiable work,

from a couple of extra sockets then that is crazy IMHO!!     

 

[tomsw18]

Are you sure they will accept the jobs you are describing?

Both of those could be accounted for on a Minor Works Certificate..

Which AFAIK have never been acceptable jobs for an assessment..

(as generally minor works are not notifiable.)

I've been self employed for over 21years now...

Had to join up to self certification my jobs when Part-p was introduced in 2006...

(so must have had 14 annual assessments done now..)

The guidance used to be two jobs, one of which should be a fuse-box and possibly a second could be new circuit..  (preferably 2x CU replacements)

But basically needs to be works that require a FULL Electrical Installation Certificate..   Not a MWC.

As it's impossible to assess if a person is competent at replacing a CU Testing & Certifying the works..

If you've only seen a minor addition/alteration.

I haven't looked at current criteria, (as never had to), but if you can genuinely be assessed as competent to self certify Part-P notifiable work,

from a couple of extra sockets then that is crazy IMHO!!     

You could be right. I've seen somewhere that it is 'recommended' to include at least one new circuit. 

Me and the neighbours are in a new build and there's no spare ways in the 20 way consumer units so that rules that out!

It really is a chicken and egg situation isn't it. Who is going to let someone new loose on their premises in order to get certified. The whole point of the new legislation is to encourage only using competent workers, but it kind of restricts that at the beginning.

I know a few factories well where I could definitely go and install a new circuit, but they're not within the 30 min distance the assessors require. 30 mins inside the South Circular in London is about a mile during the day.

 

[boltonsparky]

and certificate software next (any recommendations anyone, please?) 

Have a look at electraform, it's pay as you go rather than cough up upfront. £1 a cert so ideal if you're starting out and not doing a load of certs.

 

[Barx]

Just to add the view point of someone just going through joining NAPIT. I have my site assessment on tuesday.
Yes, NAPIT require you to have 2391. I believe you can join without but must get it within 3 months (could be 6). The reason I believe this is someone on my 2391 course a couple of months ago had just joined NAPIT. Obviously he didn't have 2391 at the time but they had told him he must get it.

NAPIT themselves told me your assessment must sho 2 new circuits installed by yourself within the last 12 months. Obviously you should be installing new circuits if you can't notify building control. So, these are the only new circuits you have installed and you will be notifying them once you are a member.

I was a NICEIC QS up to 18 months ago. I know NICEIC did NOT require QS's to hold 2391. Not sure if the principle member had to or not. Their response when I asked why QS's don't need 2391, is that they just assess your ability to test on the onsite visit. Again, this was 18 months ago so could be different now.