Just Watch And Think.....

[apprentice87]

Just watch and think, one thing old people have is wisdom and common sense. This chap has rather more than most...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/CsmIfDNeKLY?feature=oembed

john..

 

[Steve3948]

Deluded that's what he is John, other countries are far worse than our's and some much better.

He's talking about 100 years, what about before then, it was the same, you cannot expect everyone to be equal because the system will not work that way.

You have to have wealth to keep the wheels turning.

I would like to see the NHS scrapped and like the US all have insurance, which by paying less from our wages to fund the NHS we could afford.

In the US the treatment is far better, their cancer treatments are far superior to ours the survival rates much higher.

I read somewhere that the UK is one of the worse, because they fob you off with this cannot be treated, more like it will their budgets.

 

[apprentice87]

Not deluded, perfectly correct. The health service should be run for the good of the country, not to make private shareholders richer.

Take old peoples homes as an example, they should be run by the council, with properly paid and trained and SUITABLE staff, no profits, just self sustaining. What do we have now?? Private ones, with unsuitable staff, all on the minimum wage, not enough of them, but the owners getting very rich indeed. Think this is a good model for the NHS????

You say you have to have wealth to keep the wheels turning..... Ah yes, you do, BUT the difference is, in a properly run STATE OWNED system, the "wealth" is kept "in the system" The sort of thing you advocate, merely serves to siphon resources out of the "system" into private shareholders pockets....

You seriously believe that a health insurance firm has your interests at heart!!!!!!! You ever claimed on insurance then?????? With respect, i do not think it is the old man that is deluded....

By the way, they do not all have insurance in the US, an awful lot of people simply cannot afford it. Those that need it most, can afford it least.... Google it and see if you like

john...

 

[Evans Electric]

I stopped voting Labour when the Harold Wilson gov. were systematically ruining the country and doffing their collective Kier Hardie caps to the communist / left wing controlled trade unions ,( of which I was a paid up member but withdrew the Labour Party levy from my subs) ..........BUT .....I listen to the speaker with great respect ...we should learn from such people to enable us not to make the same mistakes .

Is it actually Tory policy to disband the NHS ?     I find it hard to imagine.   Its not perfect but as said , the lower paid / working classes will not afford insurance  ( They don't insure their cars FFS)   so the US system is not perfect ....I believe they ask for your "Blue Card"  ???  before treating an accident victim .     Strangely many Americans hate our NHS with a vengence.

We have two health systems ,  NHS funded by tax payers .    We have private health schemes paid by  members who also pay for the NHS.

However , the NHS is used by , taxpayers, private scheme members, non-taxpayers and until recently  anyone who breezes into the country for free treatment and breezes out again. 

My parents spoke of having to pay for the doctor to call so it was avoided if possible .....what happened with serious illness say in later life I dread to think.

Having said that ,  Labour have always used this premise during election time so I wonder how serious it is . 

Things get blown up ....they accuse Mrs Thatcher of stealing children's free school milk , but (a) much was wasted ,not drunk.      (b)  It was introduced to provide calcium to kids who were not fed properly ,  rickets etc,  those days had gone , people were much better off and could afford to feed their own kids. 

Personally I think the same about Child Allowance ,  scrap it except for the very needy,  it has become a lifestyle ,  should we pay for those types who have 10 kids but no intention of ever working  to feed & clothe them,  not while the rest of us mugs keep shelling out .      Unfortunately thats the wrong side of Socialism ,  Oh we must look after these poor kids ...what can we do ....tax the better off of course..... in the end the very rich are paying 99p in the pound Super tax so they start leaving country & taking their wealth with them ....and the system collapses.      

( In the summer , the free milk , stored outside , was almost rancid )

 

[apprentice87]

Very good post there....

As you say, the NHS is abused, that is what should stop. When they try to cut things, they start at the wrong end, like the way old people get treated. They SHOULD start at the bottom. Not a british citizen, no treatment at all, unless you have insurance...

Now, i have never been abroad, but i understand that if you went to europe, you had to have some "green card" thing, otherwise, have an accident, and tough luck. Should be the same here, no proof that you are a british citizen, then 1, no treatment, 2, you should not be here anyway, so ejected.

Start at the bottom with not treating all the drunks that turn up at the hospitals.....

I have been in the hospital with a policeman. While we were waiting, drunks and other lowlife in the waiting area were actually abusing the policeman..... I would have tasered them, then they would have something to complain about.

These drunks get admitted, and what happens??? It is 3 in the morning, you are trying to go to sleep, and what happens next?? Their entire family turn up and you have to put up with a terrible racket with much hysterical laughter. When i spoke to a nurse [who are mostly wonderful] about this i was told; "I know I know, these people seem to forget this is a hospital, what can you do??"

Well, i can tell you, eject the lot..

john

 

[Steve3948]

John,

Yes I was member of BUPA for many years while working for one of the big national privately owned Electrical Contractors, during that time I had an operation on my knee that cost £7800 only because I was rushed in with Scepticemia. I was taken as an emergency to local NHS, but when they found out I had BUPA I was transferred to private hospital, relieving the NHS of the cost.

Like Greece the trouble with state owned companies is they gey over manned with labour and dossers who want paying for doing nothing, then they have to sell out to private companies who slash the workforce in an attempt to stop a sinking ship. That's what happened to all the state owned industry in this country, its down to the workers wanting money for doing nothing.

I have been abroad at least once every year since I was 18, so at least 40 times, and other countries do alright wihout NHS from what I've seen and experienced.

 

[apprentice87]

I agree that state owned things did, in some cases get a bit overmanned, but in the NHS now, the staff are massively overworked, well, at least the ones i know personally!! There do seem to be far too many layers of UPPER management though. Private companies slash the workforce [whilst massively increasing charges] to make huge profits for themselves..

john..

 

[Evans Electric]

Very good post there....

As you say, the NHS is abused, that is what should stop. When they try to cut things, they start at the wrong end, like the way old people get treated. They SHOULD start at the bottom. Not a british citizen, no treatment at all, unless you have insurance...

Now, i have never been abroad, but i understand that if you went to europe, you had to have some "green card" thing, otherwise, have an accident, and tough luck. Should be the same here, no proof that you are a british citizen, then 1, no treatment, 2, you should not be here anyway, so ejected.

Start at the bottom with not treating all the drunks that turn up at the hospitals.....

I have been in the hospital with a policeman. While we were waiting, drunks and other lowlife in the waiting area were actually abusing the policeman..... I would have tasered them, then they would have something to complain about.

These drunks get admitted, and what happens??? It is 3 in the morning, you are trying to go to sleep, and what happens next?? Their entire family turn up and you have to put up with a terrible racket with much hysterical laughter. When i spoke to a nurse [who are mostly wonderful] about this i was told; "I know I know, these people seem to forget this is a hospital, what can you do??"

Well, i can tell you, eject the lot..

john

Too bloody right there ,   they also attack the hospital staff .... A&E in B,ham have bouncers in stab vests to protect the staff .   Drunkas are a huge cost to the NHS.

 

[apprentice87]

Another thing about private health insurance.... What if you got an enduring condition?? What if you got a congential one?? How you going to get insurance in the first place then??

Given all the banking fraud and the other financial mis-selling carry on, who in their right mind would trust their health to these people....

john..

 

[Evans Electric]

I never heard of BUPA treating anyone for a long , ongoing  condition TBH   . Could be wrong.

 

[Apache]

There are a few misconceptions in the initial video and some views in this thread.

The previous Labour government did a lot of privatising of the NHS, some of which the Tories have reversed. The Tory policy is not to privatise the NHS.

The NHS is broken. Supply is constantly outstripping demand for the services and funds. I blame people rather than politicians. People are dialling 999 for an ambulance with a cold or a stubbed toe. People are going to A&E drunk or with minor health conditions they should have taken to the GP. People seem to have lost the ability to take care of themselves. You don't need medical attention for a cold or a stomach upset.

The other aspect crippling the system is the advancements in medical care and the spiralling costs. It's rare a week goes by without some 'fight' for some cancer treatment or another. In all cases the cost-benefit is just not there. You can read all about it on the NHS website, but it looks at the cost of the treatment and the likelihood of increased duration and quality of life. It is really poor use of NHS money to slightly increase a persons misery at great cost. It rarely says that in the Daily Mail....

I have had BUPA cover from when I started working, The NHS is great for emergencies (possibly the best in the world in many areas) but less good for longer term, less urgent conditions.

I would be in favour of a 2 tier health system, emergency and basic care provided for all. Other care paid for by insurance. Legalise euthanasia.

 

[kerching]

On the 'few' occasions I have been to Hospital I have been amazed at he number of staff members just "wandering the corridors" clutching a piece of paper

Just....seems a bit "old school" ....considering the technology available

 

[Murdoch]

My misses works in the NHS, in an area where 2 wards are "linked" - one could have staff who are run off their feet and the other could have staff reading magazines and/or sleeping on the night shift.

They never send spare staff from one area to the other, and bearing in mind all staff work in both areas by rotation they all know what needs doing.

Bad managment plays its part too.

We should also consider that the bulk of the additional people in the UK are in the South, yet the South gets less per head than the north from the NHS - so its no surprise that loads of the struggling hospitals are down south.

Then there is PFI - a ponzi scheme which WILL bring the NHS to its knees sooner or later.

 

[Evans Electric]

I support the NHS  but widespread State Controlled industry  worries me .

Being of a certain age I grew up in time of quite widespread State Control  and although Private ownership has it's problems also I wonder which is best.

I grew up in an age of things like :-

The Gas Board    (State controlled)

The Electric Board   (Ditto )

The Water Board     ( Ditto)

British Rail             State Controlled

The National Coal Board   State Control

British Road Services   BRS    State controlled  red lorries

The Post Office      ( State control of all letters , parcels , telephone service , radio broadcasting licencing , Amateur radio use, )

Bus transport controlled by local councils

BOAC    Government controlled Airline

As today ,,,many of us educated by the local council.

The BBC  ........one channel broadcasting ......all English language Radio & TV . 

Most of the Beeb's output would bore the pants off you until , in the middle 1950s  , commercial TV was finally given a licence to transmit  and gave the Beeb an almighty kick up the arse .

Pop music was basically ignored by the BBC Radio  and totally by BBC TV  so to hear the latest records from  Elvis , Buddy Holly , Eddie Cochran  etc  you listened to Radio Luxemburg ...which only gained signal strength after dark .    ( Main DJ  ....Yep..Mr Saville ) 

Then , as I'm sure you know , in the 60s the Pirate stations ,  Caroline etc  gave another kick up the arse to the Beeb , forcing them to drop  The Light Programme,  the Third and The Home Service   and create Radios 1 ..2..3...4...5 .   The Pirates dissapeared and commercial radio began  .

Unfortunatetly commercial radio has now totally sold out to the easy option of play some records over & over again and sell advertising space  ad nauseum. All sound the same , no identity, moronic presenters who only appeal to younger generation .

Well those in this area anyway.

Ooops  on a rant again .  Sorry .

 

[Sharpend]

All in all then deke you'll be down at the conference that's going on in your area then???

 

[binky]

The health of the nation is a collective thing, the Elizabethans worked that out 500 years ago (didn't do much about it though!), if the poor have contagious diseases, they pass it to the wealthy. So looking after the whole of society benefits the wealthy too, and as the wealthy are generally owners of businesses, they also benefit from having healthy workers turn up to do a days graft... So as health benefits the whole country, it's just aswell to have a whole country system, does it need improving YES, everything needs to change and evolve, but privatisation is not the answer, nor rediculous competitve quotes systems leading the race to the bottom.