Kitchen Rewire

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

What is that reg about kitchen furniture?

As far as I know there is NO reg that specifically says you can't...

BUT the "IEE Electricians guide to the building regulations"

(ISBN 0 86341 463 X)

has a section on kitchens (5.2) paragraph.

5.2.2 Location of accessories in kitchens.General guidance can be provided as follows:

(i) Wiring accessories (e.g. socket-outlets, switches) should be mounted on the building fabric and not kitchen furniture.

which IMHO kitchen 'furniture' here is referring to your bog-standard kitchen units, cupboards as secured to the walls.

NOT 'furniture' as in tables, chairs, stools etc..

cuz if it is NOT the secured cupboards that it is referring to.. then what is this kitchen Furniture?? ?:|

personally, other than under cupboard counter lights, I never fit any electrical accessories to any kitchen cupboards!

but as said its only "GUIDANCE" and each to his own!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

big sockets or small units?

:^O :^O:^O

PMSL :^O :^O

them big 300mm single gang sockets:O:OBlushing

mind you the double sockets are 500mm bu99ers!!! :^O :^O:^O:^O

 

[steptoe]

just as an addition to this,

I got pulled recently for having a main switch fitted inside a unit, low level, and if I had fitted it to the wall beside the CU there would have been no backboard left in the cupboard. it had already been cut out to allow the CU to be mounted to the wall, and meter was directly beside it also mounted on wall,

the SW was on a little island (vertical strip about 6" wide that had been left to keep unit strength) between CU and METER.

was LA house tho.

 

[extension15]

X(

What is that reg about kitchen furniture? ]

None what so ever... X(

Furniture is moveable end of...

Kitchen cupboards are 'fixed/secured' part of the fabric............

Why do any of you guys want to take this argument any further?

 

[steptoe]

do you reckon its anything to do with commercial kitchens?

movable stainless benches etc?

by the way, street furniture is defined as "...being barriers etc fixed to, but not forming part of, the street...".

 

[The Godfather]

do you reckon its anything to do with commercial kitchens?movable stainless benches etc?

by the way, street furniture is defined as "...being barriers etc fixed to, but not forming part of, the street...".

But Street furniture is 'outside' Kitchen furniture is 'inside' a reasonable differnce in electrical terms, Steptoe..

The Godfather

 

[steptoe]

But Street furniture is 'outside' Kitchen furniture is 'inside' a reasonable differnce in electrical terms, Steptoe..The Godfather

very well pointed out Don,

if a little obvious,

perhaps I should have been more clear,

I was refering to the perhaps legal term, would it be classified in the same manner?

although barriers benches etc do not form part of the actual street, but as they are fixed there and still classed as furniture, would permanently fixed kitchen fittings be classed as kitchen furniture?

not trying to be pedantic(for a change ] )

actually wondering.

 

[extension15]

Think were about to get a big response from Specs...

(Taking him long enough.. )

Anyway, I'd be well peed off if my cupboards (Kitchen) weren't secure.....

:^O

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

X( None what so ever... X(

Furniture is movable end of...

Kitchen cupboards are 'fixed/secured' part of the fabric............

Why do any of you guys want to take this argument any further?

No ones arguing just pointing out for the sake of perhaps younger less experienced persons that one persons interpretation may not be the ONLY valid interpretation..

Furniture is movable end of.. (which personally I don't agree with)

I am of the same commonly held understanding by much of the population..

Including the 'IEE' that furniture can be the Fixed kitchen units.

But I am sure we both have broad enough shoulders so we can agree to disagree! :x

I would just point out for the reference of others reading...

Re: my prevuioius post...

BUT the "IEEprevious Electricians guide to the building regulations"(ISBN 0 86341 463 X)

has a section on kitchens (5.2) paragraph.

Quote:

5.2.2 Location of accessories in kitchens.

General guidance can be provided as follows:

(i) Wiring accessories (e.g. socket-outlets, switches) should be mounted on the building fabric and not on kitchen furniture.

IMHO kitchen 'furniture' here is referring to your bog-standard kitchen units, cupboards as secured to the walls.

NOT 'furniture' as in tables, chairs, stools etc..

because if the above statement can be read as follows.

"(i) Wiring accessories (e.g. socket-outlets, switches) should be mounted on the building fabric and not on 'movable tables & chairs'."

it just don't make any sense whatsoever!!

Also consider also paragraph (viii) from the same IEE publication..

Appliances built into kitchen furniture (integrated appliances) should be connected to a socket outlet or fused connection unit that is readily accessible when the appliance is in place and in normal use or supplied from a socket outlet or other connecting device controlled by a readily accessible double pole switch or fused connection unit.

'kitchen furniture' where integrated appliances are built into...

this is the fixed worktops/units etc..

e.g. an integrated oven is NOT in a movable unit, or on movable furniture..

It is in the Fixed kitchen furniture.

As another note the above book is guidance primarily relating to Domestic installations & Part-P... NOT commercial!.

In fact.. I just scanned the relevant page in so as you can read it yourself..

You can read it here.

IMHO it is obvious to the average person reading section 5.2.2

bullet points (i) and (viii)

and looking at figure 5.2

Kitchen furniture IS referring to the fixed kitchen units!

but as said before this is only IEE guidance

and we all make our own interpretations.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Think were about to get a big response from Specs... (Taking him long enough.. )

Anyway, I'd be well peed off if my cupboards (Kitchen) weren't secure.....

:^O

Applaud Smiley:^O:^O

Scanning ruddy pages on to photobucket:_|X(Blushing

 

[extension15]

I could argue that a drylined wall is no more secure than well fitted Kitchen cupboards (or furniture if I must: O) ......

Debate/argue as you see fit................. ; \

 

[avinalarf]

Nothing wrong with that, cupboards (secured) are part of the fabric of the property...

Extension, please confirm that it IS ok to put sockets into kitchen cupboards as I was told by my tutor (just passed 17th) that this was no longer the case.

Cheers

 

[extension15]

Extension, please confirm that it IS ok to put sockets into kitchen cupboards as I was told by my tutor (just passed 17th) that this was no longer the case.Cheers

What regulation did he quote?

Anyway if you feel this is a problem, cut hole in back panel and secure socket to fabric of installation.........................................................

:^O

 

[extension15]

I suppose the IEE, must have their Kitchens mounted on wheels..



; \



:^O :^O

 

[kme]

OK - to add my views / practices.

I do, have & will continue to fit sockets / spurs / DP switches within cupboards.

The built-in equipment MUST be capable of being isolated, and DP grid switches are not always practical (or practicable). I will admit to EVEN putting a socket (behind the plinth)

What are they going to do - move all the units around, after you`ve gone????

 

[Apache]

Is the issue here not when the homeowner decides to rip out kitchen DIY style with your socket attached to the carcase?

 

[kme]

If they`re going to do something like that, then they`re the same numpties who take a sledgehammer to a wall, while the light switch, double sockets, and radiator are still in place.....

Yup, I HAVE seen it done

 

[Apache]

New argument - RCD's against natural selection! Survival of the fittest.

If they are sufficiently dense to bash through the wall they deserve electricuting for the sake of the human gene pool

What do you think?

 

[extension15]

Perhaps the IEE, should insist on RCD's for all future circuits, especially for kitchen furniture...

; \

; \ ; \

; \ ; \ ; \

( )

Nite all, it's been, interesting...................

Applaud Smiley

 

[a1]

Is the issue here not when the homeowner decides to rip out kitchen DIY style with your socket attached to the carcase?

You do as EXT says...

You cut out a hole slightly larger than the S/O of the back panel, and either suface mount or cisel out the wall and sink it in there.