Mains downlighters.

[Megaohm7]

Been to look at a job today where the customer was complaining of the downlights in his hallway forever replacing the transformers. There are 6 downlights each 35w and 2 transformers each feeding 3 fittings. I suggested mains fire rated fittings instead so need to source some but he wants to use lamps of no more than 35watts. He is even keen on replacing the ones in his office and there are 9 in there so can anyone suggest good suppliers as I want to get a cost together. The type of lamps preferably low energy GU10 ?. Cheers!!

 

[matt.leung]

what about CFL, i have fitted a lot of them recently, and look really good. (they are GU10's)

 

[binky]

WTF do you want fire rated???? Complete waste of money. Daft question but have you checked trannies are suitably sized for lights and of decent make.

Personally i would suggest fitting twist-lock cast fittings (these take low energy lamps and are cheap to boot, they also hold their colour well) with GU10 low energy lamps in office or even LED. Hallway a bit different because you probably don't want long warm-up time, so just find GU10 35w lamps or again LED as the equivalent lumens are quite reasonable now.

GU10 Cast Downlighters

 

[Theorysparky]

What i tend to do is get the Screwfix/toolstation cat. out price from there for the customer

then phone my wholesaler up and haggle for a better price

 

[Megaohm7]

WTF do you want fire rated???? Complete waste of money. Daft question but have you checked trannies are suitably sized for lights and of decent make. Personally i would suggest fitting twist-lock cast fittings (these take low energy lamps and are cheap to boot, they also hold their colour well) with GU10 low energy lamps in office or even LED. Hallway a bit different because you probably don't want long warm-up time, so just find GU10 35w lamps or again LED as the equivalent lumens are quite reasonable now.

GU10 Cast Downlighters

I did check transformers and with each one feeding 3 lamps they are nigh on the top end of their power output. The reasoning behind the fire rated type is to my understanding that if there is a room above where the lights are fitted then dont you have to maintain the fire barrier? building regs. I'm not a fan of downlighters myself as Ive seen too many DIY jobs that leave a lot to be desire

 

[binky]

One house is one fire compartment, ergo the ceilings in between are not fire rated beyond about 30 mins, or the life of a standard plastered ceiling. By the time a fire has burnt out a standard ceiling even with downlighters, the occupants will be dead or jumping oput of the upstairs windows. The one exception to this is houses with integral garages, as the garage is a sepaerate fire compartment, or flats which are a fire compartment each.

Apologies if I came over a bit harsh, but have the same opinion on fire rated downlighters as Steptoe does on exporting earths on T-N-CS. In particular I dislike the overhaeting of the lamps caused by retricted airflow making the lamps shortlived, and the unnecessary cost.

 

[m4tty]

Mega do you think customer will be happy with the yellower output of mains rather than crisp white light of elv ones?

 

[Megaohm7]

Mega do you think customer will be happy with the yellower output of mains rather than crisp white light of elv ones?

I think they would like a warmer light personally matty.

 

[sellers]

One house is one fire compartment, ergo the ceilings in between are not fire rated beyond about 30 mins, or the life of a standard plastered ceiling. By the time a fire has burnt out a standard ceiling even with downlighters, the occupants will be dead or jumping oput of the upstairs windows. The one exception to this is houses with integral garages, as the garage is a sepaerate fire compartment, or flats which are a fire compartment each.Apologies if I came over a bit harsh, but have the same opinion on fire rated downlighters as Steptoe does on exporting earths on T-N-CS. In particular I dislike the overhaeting of the lamps caused by retricted airflow making the lamps shortlived, and the unnecessary cost.

aswell as 3 storey houses.

 

[NozSpark]

just to throw this into the mix...

or LABC require fire cap fittings for any downlighters that have a habitable room above.

They may not be right, but to be honest it's not worth P'ing them off

 

[gselectrical]

I tend to use the fire rated ones to be honest. Dont really like the idea of any insulation touching the lamp. I know insulation is supposed to be cleared around the fitting, but whose to stop someone coming along at a later date and disturbing/re insulating.

Just my opinion

GS

 

[PC Electrics]

Have you looked at the downlighter advice I uploaded ages ago?

Installing Downlighters Safely - Downloads - Talk.electricianforum.co.uk... a forum with a difference.

Installing Recessed luminaires - Downloads - Talk.electricianforum.co.uk... a forum with a difference.

 

[SteveT]

I am now going down the route of LED - after much research the Phillips Master LED are, in my opinion, the best - 10W to replace 50W Halogen, 7W for 35's.

(Most other makes are 7W and 4.5W - which don't give enough light.

Available in MR16 or GU10, both dimmable and retro fit into existing fittings

I pay

 

[Megaohm7]

Have you looked at the downlighter advice I uploaded ages ago?Installing Downlighters Safely - Downloads - Talk.electricianforum.co.uk... a forum with a difference.

Installing Recessed luminaires - Downloads - Talk.electricianforum.co.uk... a forum with a difference.

I've just read the downloads and I see things now in a different light ( no pun intended ). I understand that from the replies that I received that In a normal house, fitting a fire rated downlighter will not make a huge difference in the spread of fire compared to a standard fitting.It's all down to common sense, following the manufacturers instructions. Thanks pcelectrics

 

[binky]

Have educated LABC before - they aren't experts in everything and can be wrong. Point them at JCC website - some nice testing info on there.

 

[ianmacd]

I take a different view on that (probably in line with LABC) in that if you have compromised a fire, acoustic or insulation barrier (in this case the plasterboard ceiling) then you have a duty of care to restore that barrier. Using downlighters that comply with Parts B, E and L is an easy way to achieve that.

How would you like to be in the dock because someone died in a fire and you are the scapegoat because you compromisted a fire barrier (be it 30 mins or longer)?

 

[binky]

If it is a proper fire rated ceiling then you are 100% correct. But as most domestic ceilings are NOT fire rated, then you are wasting your/ your customers money, fitting units that actually overheat the lamps causing them to fail. If you check the JCC website (unless they changed it since I last looked), even standard downlighters will last 30 mins. It's a subject I looked deeply into a few years ago when Fire Rated units were

 

[ianmacd]

How can JCC certify every downlighter for 30 mins when they don't even manufacture them? Don't see lamps overheating as an issue either as they should now be low energy too so shouldn't make any difference.

 

[steptoe]

I am now going down the route of LED - after much research the Phillips Master LED are, in my opinion, the best - 10W to replace 50W Halogen, 7W for 35's.(Most other makes are 7W and 4.5W - which don't give enough light.

Available in MR16 or GU10, both dimmable and retro fit into existing fittings

I pay