Max Zs

[maccarooni]

apache,

As were on to rabbits now. My daughters rabbit is 7 yrs old.. whats that in rabbit years. Shes looking a bit frail and thinner now. Not my daughter..the rabbit

Macca..

you must be near finished that bottle by now,,,, have one of these

Guiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness Drink

Macca

 

[Apache]

im in agreement too, pecking orders are a load of old horse poo! thats what a forum is about, pecking orders indicate power (as someone else posted, mods and admin have that "power") but to every one else were all individual and all have our own view points. last time i heard the phrase pecking order was about 12 years ago when i use to argue the toss with other trades why i had to make all the cups of T. they would all say cos of the pecking order! phhtt no such thing imo, spesh not on a forum (unless your admin or mod?)

rich e roo

The reason I chose 'pecking order' was purly for what it means. Your old forum had it's regulars, it's main posters, as does this. I'm not emplying any member's contribution is worth more or less than any other (old or new).

Now new members come along (and are welcomed with open arms) BUT as opposed to fitting in they try to be confrontational and try and stamp some kind of authority on things by confronting established members! This is not how to make friends and influence people.

X(

 

[PAUL M]

Ah you have to try hard to get it to bleed to death. With white claws there's a pink 'quick' you must avoid. Black claws are trickier. If you have a mix of white and black claws use the white claws as a guide for the blackIf all black claws take things back gradually a couple of mm at a time. If you get blood talc stops it, as does one of those sticks they sell in chemists for shaving wounds.

Every vet I know stil makes the odd nail bleed every now and again

cheers for that will have a go,if he does bleed to death at least tea is sorted,Guiness Drink please note, no offence to rabbits was meant by this reply.Guiness Drink

 

[sparkyork]

The reason I chose 'pecking order' was purly for what it means. Your old forum had it's regulars, it's main posters, as does this. I'm not emplying any member's contribution is worth more or less than any other (old or new).Now new members come along (and are welcomed with open arms) BUT as opposed to fitting in they try to be confrontational and try and stamp some kind of authority on things by confronting established members! This is not how to make friends and influence people.

X(

lol! what exactly do you mean by "pecking" order then. sounds like you are implying that the regulars on here are worth more than any new posters too me ? debate is what forums are about, and yes alot of new people have come along and speaking for myself i dont have any intention of causung problems, im a light hearted yorkshire man who loves everyone!! lol

rich

 

[Apache]

lol! what exactly do you mean by "pecking" order then. sounds like you are implying that the regulars on here are worth more than any new posters too me ? debate is what forums are about, and yes alot of new people have come along and speaking for myself i dont have any intention of causung problems, im a light hearted yorkshire man who loves everyone!! lolrich

I feel quite strongly that certian new members are entering into debate rather fiercly in attempt to stamp their authority over us. Thereby increasing their apparant status here. Maybe they feel somewhat impotent having all they have worked for on the other forum disappear and they are starting at the bottom.

We are a nice friendly forum:x and all I want is for us all to get along!Pray really

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

yes, you clearly have misenterpreted my meaning. I have a particular writing style. I am sometimes DELIBERATELY vague with my answers. Some people know what i mean, and have a wry smile to themselves, and others dont and will come back with "not sure about that Shakey, could you explain". i will then take the trouble to write a full and comprehensive reply, because it required.

Deliberately vague and expecting others to come back to you asking questions is probably fine in a classroom environment..

But unfortunately on a forum there are always a percentage of persons who dont post... but they do read... and maybe dont feel confident enough to post a reasonable question to get a better understanding....?

and could end up going away with an incorrect understanding

e.g. thinking.. well Zs dont apply to 17th jobs with RCD's then?

IMHO

Leaving deliberately vague answers isn't always a great help to those wider forum...

Neither is slipping in statements like "open can of worms", in the context in which you did...

To the average man on the street could give the impression

of a person who may like to start arguments..

Please NOTE:- I am not accusing you Shakey of anything.Guiness Drink

just stating a fact. :x

Also expecting others to keep coming back because you only want to drip feed fact's may not be the best of help to others..?

why not just help everyone on your first post? then get on with another thread? ?:|

 

[sparkyork]

me too apache, but debate will always be active on a forum.

 

[Shakey]

No it wasn'tWas a clear well written post that made far more sense than yours!

why are you being confrontational?

I gave a reply to a post that was aimed at the subject

Somebody then gives a lengthy reply that was aimed directly at me. it was aggresive and direct. He had a pop - and i have no idea why, but what worries me is that you think its justified because he is 'top dog'?

 

[sparkyork]

why are you being confrontational?I gave a reply to a post that was aimed at the subject

Somebody then gives a lengthy reply that was aimed directly at me. it was aggresive and direct. He had a pop - and i have no idea why, but what worries me is that you think its justified because he is 'top dog'?

i also thought this was confrontational shakes, and antogonising, but i do love everyone :x

 

[Shakey]

Deliberately vague and expecting others to come back to you asking questions is probably fine in a classroom environment..But unfortunately on a forum there are always a percentage of persons who dont post... but they do read... and maybe dont feel confident enough to post a reasonable question to get a better understanding....?

and could end up going away with an incorrect understanding

e.g. thinking.. well Zs dont apply to 17th jobs with RCD's then?

IMHO

Leaving deliberately vague answers isn't always a great help to those wider forum...

Neither is slipping in statements like "open can of worms", in the context in which you did...

To the average man on the street could give the impression

of a person who may like to start arguments..

Please NOTE:- I am not accusing you Shakey of anything.Guiness Drink

just stating a fact. :x

Also expecting others to keep coming back because you only want to drip feed fact's may not be the best of help to others..?

why not just help everyone on your first post? then get on with another thread? ?:|

ok i am getting fed up with this

look, I have a vast experience of posting on electrical forums

I will do it MY way, and will not be lectured to on how to post replies.

The 'can opened, worms everywhere' was DELIBERETLY to provoke healthy debate, and that surely is what a forum is about.

I would not dare to come on here and lecture an exisitng forum member of how to post, but dont think you can do it to me just because i am new

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

And I would assume you are not suggesting to ignore? .....

Big red book Pg 59:

415.1.2 The use of RCD's is not recognised as a sole means of protection and does not obviate the need to apply one of the protective measures specified in sections 411 to 414

411 - Automatic disconnection of supply

412 - double or reinforced insulation

413 - electrical separation

414 - extra low voltage provided by SELV or PELV

No i am not suggesting that they be ignored, and there was not even the slightest hint that i was.

other than the statement from your post #18

of course it is pretty much irrelevent unfer the 17th edition anyway, as most circuits need only be lower than 1667 ohms (can opened, worms everywhere)

which as we were discussing max Zs e.g. context of section 411..

which thus relates back to 415.1.2

implies that Zs is irrelevant because you are RCD'ing every circuit? :|

or is that not a slight hint?

shall I clean me glasses..

practice my reading

or get my coat? ?:|

 

[Shakey]

I feel quite strongly that certian new members are entering into debate rather fiercly in attempt to stamp their authority over us. Thereby increasing their apparant status here. Maybe they feel somewhat impotent having all they have worked for on the other forum disappear and they are starting at the bottom.We are a nice friendly forum:x and all I want is for us all to get along!Pray really

well actually i thought the opposite

I felt quite strongly that certain 'old' members were entering into a debate rather fiercely in an attempt to stamp THEIR authority over US.

i can assure you there is no level of impotence - I for one have made it clear, by deliberately posting that I (we) come here with nothing - no baggage, no 'held over' heirachy, nowt.

i couldnt care less about work gone before in other places, its irelevent.

But i will tell you what i do feel - I was told this was a warm and friendly place and we would be welcomed with open arms - well some of you have a funny way of showing it - i am getting aggression and resentment - and one valued friend has already emailed me to say this place isnt for him - and that it is sad

I want to be here, and i want to make it work - but i am already getting the feeling that it isnt what i thought it was going to be - and perhaps we are not as welcome as we were told

 

[sparkyork]

now now peeps does this have to turn into a clash??? everyone is aware of the can of worms associated with the old 1667 ohms thang. and there is no doubt that it does come into the thread as a serious point of topic. anyone reading this thread would now possibly learn a bit more about this as well, i personally would always maintain a good reliable Zs reading but theres no escaping the fact that 1667 sis permisable under certain conditions which would make it pretty much irrelevent would it not?? its then down to an individual to determine how "good" they are and how far there conscience takes them...

rich e roo

 

[Apache]

now now peeps does this have to turn into a clash??? everyone is aware of the can of worms associated with the old 1667 ohms thang. and there is no doubt that it does come into the thread as a serious point of topic. anyone reading this thread would now possibly learn a bit more about this as well, i personally would always maintain a good reliable Zs reading but theres no escaping the fact that 1667 sis permisable under certain conditions which would make it pretty much irrelevent would it not?? its then down to an individual to determine how "good" they are and how far there conscience takes them...rich e roo

Bless you for trying to steer this thread back on topic :x

I fear it may be too late

 

[a2]

Guys can you not kiss and make up? :|

Agree to disagee.

Share a pint( well a virtual one )Guiness Drink

 

[Shakey]

other than the statement from your post #18which as we were discussing max Zs e.g. context of section 411..

which thus relates back to 415.1.2

implies that Zs is irrelevant because you are RCD'ing every circuit? :|

or is that not a slight hint?

shall I clean me glasses..

practice my reading

or get my coat? ?:|

Sorry, i well have to ensure my posts are full, accurate and explain all possible commutations of the answer

ok here goes

under the 17th edition, where MANY circuits are RCD protected, and the RCD satisfies the requirement for ADS in the event of a fault to earth, then the Zs value relating to any particular CPD used in conjunction with the RCD becomes irrelevent, as the RCD will operate before the fault touch voltage exceeds 50V providing that the EFLI of the RCD protected circuit is 1667 ohms or less. As such, concerning yourself with whether or not a 32A Type B BS EN 60898 MCB is below a tabulated value of 1.44 ohms is a futile exercise where the circuit is protected by a 30mA residual current device.

i am not implying that ZS is irrelevent OR putting RCD's on every circuit.

now while you try and pick holes in that statement, i am off to bed:z

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

now now peeps does this have to turn into a clash??? everyone is aware of the can of worms associated with the old 1667 ohms thang. and there is no doubt that it does come into the thread as a serious point of topic. anyone reading this thread would now possibly learn a bit more about this as well, i personally would always maintain a good reliable Zs reading but theres no escaping the fact that 1667 sis permisable under certain conditions which would make it pretty much irrelevent would it not?? its then down to an individual to determine how "good" they are and how far there conscience takes them...rich e roo

concur with your general point there Sparkyork..

But do need to avoid giving the impression that 1667 is a free meal ticket to ignore Max Zs..

and we must still remember there is other electrics outside of the Domestic world. and reg 415.1.2 is also in the book.

Irrelevant in certain limited circumstances..Yes.. but not irrelevant within the context of 17th in general.

 

[sparkyork]

Guys can you not kiss and make up? :| Agree to disagee.

Share a pint( well a virtual one )Guiness Drink

my round first then! one for you Guiness Drink one for you Guiness Drink one for you Guiness Drink one for youGuiness Drink, how much barman...that'll be 2 mega bits please...ok thanks. cheers everyone, bottoms up! lol! Guiness Drink

 

[Apache]

I can't think of anything nice to say so I'm not going to say anything at all :|

 

[sparkyork]

I can't think of anything nice to say so I'm not going to say anything at all :|

have a pint then instead Guiness Drink