Max Zs

[batty]

hi battyi was under the impression that by having to put the max values down, it then ensures that one actually knows what values not to exceed. I am sure that there is some other reason for this , but especially now since the values are different in the 17th, if i get a .89 ohm reading on a 6A 60898 mcb i can be sure that the red book will let me know if i.m getting close as i have to check it anyway.

Macca

Have one on me.

Guiness Drink

And also as a side note, I may not be a regular poster or a long time member of this forum, But I DO find it very helpful and am grateful for constructive replies and comments

Macca

Macca there is no space to put them on the iee certs but when you are testing you only need the value to put down but obviously if it is to high you would need to rectify this. But with TT systems it will usually be above the max value but that is what Rcd is for.

Batty

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Steady on mate. Special Location is top poster on here and therfore top dog!He's answering in his normal manner. He's been helpful and refering back to specific points.

Mr location is very respectful. I'm sure you are welcome here but bear in mind that there's an established pecking order coming along as a newbie and being confrontational is not the way to go.

Appreciate your comment there ApacheGuiness Drink:x

But I would actually disagree with a couple of your points..

top poster - top dog?? don't like or agree with this concept. :_|

"Special" is just a normal guy.. with 30+ years experience within various aspects of electrical / telecoms / computing industry..

commercial & domestic and with associated formal qualifications to back up his experiance...

and following various takeovers / mergers and redundancy.. has now been working for himself for nearly 10 years.

(and his happily married, Not as many years as EXT15 though Applaud Smiley, but enough to have produced a bunch of mini Special's, the eldest of which is now at University!)

From this little box of experience is quite happy to share his bit of knowledge with others in a way that can help them with their understanding.

The number of posts is an irrelevant bit of statistical data.. and accounts or absolute nil/zilch/jot!

The Top-dog's and those at the top of the pecking order here are...

THE ADMINS & MODERATORS!!!Applaud SmileyApplaud SmileyApplaud Smiley

:x :x

no questions. no arguments!

If I have offended anybody again I would apologies sorry:x

but was just trying to help clear up an ambiguous un-verified statement that could cause confusion to others still learning Sparking!

and quite clearly Max Zs is still relevant even with 17th!

 

[steptoe]

just wondering what the max Zs is for

30a BS3036

25a BS3871 type 2

I dont think either of these are covered by BS7671-2008, but are perfectly acceptable protective devices.

generally I simply put a note on the cert explaining that 'no max Zs value available in BS7671-2008 for protective device XXXXXXXX'

anyone got some other suggestion.

 

[maccarooni]

Batty

sorry that i've never used the iee certs, Have only ever worked for a nic approved contractor and only used their certs, I have therefore always had to get max permissable and fill it in.

macca

 

[Apache]

"Special" is just a normal guy.. with 30+ years experience

..........but you share your knowledge freely and that's what's important

I agree with the importance of Admin (and his good lady wife) and the mods - they do a Stirling job Applaud Smiley

You've helped myself and others so many times that I don't like it when people start questioning your posts

 

[a1]

What I like about you, Specs... Is that you just don't post an answer - you take time in replying in depth. And will seek the correct info, reg numbers etc too.

 

[PAUL M]

You've helped myself and others so many times that I don't like it when people start questioning your posts

but isnt that the pure essence of what a forum is surely if we all just agreed on everything it would just become a self appreciation society,as we all know the regs are not allways clear cut and this leaves certain things open to interpretation,so a good natured open disscusion does help to clear up some of the more vague regs,does it notPrayGuiness Drink

 

[maccarooni]

Seem to have gone off the topic a bit ,but totally agree with apache, Admins moderators and members, all have and/or should have one thing in common, to share /help and encourage others through experience wisdom and knowledge.

MaccaApplaud Smiley

 

[batty]

Battysorry that i've never used the iee certs, Have only ever worked for a nic approved contractor and only used their certs, I have therefore always had to get max permissable and fill it in.

macca

I don't see why you should need to put this on the cert as long as your loop is below max why should you need to put it down. It is causing you more work.

Batty

 

[Apache]

but isnt that the pure essence of what a forum is surely if we all just agreed on everything it would just become a self appreciation society,as we all know the regs are not allways clear cut and this leaves certain things open to interpretation,so a good natured open disscusion does help to clear up some of the more vague regs,does it notPrayGuiness Drink

Questioning the content of the posts is fine. We all like a nice healthy debate.

It's questioning of the sentiment of the post and the accusation of disrespect and the name calling (#22) that I was defending

I know Special Location is more than capable of looking after him self

 

[Shakey]

Which was indeed what I just said. POST 4:- "@ normal operating temperatue! if not adjusted re Appendix 14."

POST 11:-"that allow for increased heat in a conductor during earth fault!

NICEIC quote these 80% values as the max value when testing cold conductors.."



It would appear with statements like that you are obviously not bud?

1667Ω is the limit to ensure 50v "touch voltage not exceeded"..... as in 1667Ω x 30ma = 50v

And I would assume you are not suggesting to ignore? .....

Big red book Pg 59:

411 - Automatic disconnection of supply

412 - double or reinforced insulation

413 - electrical separation

414 - extra low voltage provided by SELV or PELV

"Its probably not a lot of help to others just sticking out a bland statement like this without justifying it a bit for the benefit of others reading who genuinely would like to learn!

Lets face it anyone can type any old statement just to cause confusion.. but it's not really helpful is it? ?:|

I do hope you can put more positive input than this to the forum? and this has nothing to do with the reasons you have left your other place? :|

(Can closed Worms Squashed)! ; \

If I have miss interpreted your meaning here I appologise.. Lets hope for more constructive debate

oh there is also many an industrial / commercial application where RCDs not needed?

or even in a domestic.. with surface conduit to FCU suppling some fixed equipment? RCD? Nope!

OUCH!

It would appear with statements like that you are obviously not bud?

what was that for? because i didnt answer how you wanted me to? I wont justify myself with my CV, but i can assure you i have an extremelly wide ranging background in many aspects of the electrical industry, stretching back some decades, and have a number of years tutoring experience both in installations and technician based subjects.

And I would assume you are not suggesting to ignore? .....

Big red book Pg 59:

411 - Automatic disconnection of supply

412 - double or reinforced insulation

413 - electrical separation

414 - extra low voltage provided by SELV or PELV

No i am not suggesting that they be ignored, and there was not even the slightest hint that i was.

Its probably not a lot of help to others just sticking out a bland statement like this without justifying it a bit for the benefit of others reading who genuinely would like to learn!

Lets face it anyone can type any old statement just to cause confusion.. but it's not really helpful is it? ?:|

I do hope you can put more positive input than this to the forum? and this has nothing to do with the reasons you have left your other place?:

I was not intending to cause confusion, but sometimes i can post without having to give a text book justification of my statement - i can assure you then when someone asks a question (and not just about installation specific work) which requires a full and knowledgeable answer for the benefit of others education i am MORE than capable of giving it - it just gets a bit tiring having to do it with EVERY reply.

I considered i WAS giving positive input to the forum - and the reasons i left the other place has nothing to do with the quality of my posts (although the reason all the others left with me was due in part to the quality, quantity and accuracy of my posts)

yes, you clearly have misenterpreted my meaning. I have a particular writing style. I am sometimes DELIBERATELY vague with my answers. Some people know what i mean, and have a wry smile to themselves, and others dont and will come back with "not sure about that Shakey, could you explain". i will then take the trouble to write a full and comprehensive reply, because it required.

Now i have only been here a few days, and like the look of the place, but i REALLY hope it isnt one of those 'you cant be a proper electrician with a reply like that' type places. I may say it about myself as a joke (which is long running & shared with all the 'old' guys), but that is different to someone else saying it.

And you are correct - being 'top dog' counts for nothing - you reply in your own fashion and manner - but i wholeheartedly reserve the right to reply in mine.

 

[PAUL M]

i see your point apache,oh while we are on,my rabbit needs his claws cutting,can i do it myself or do i need to take him to a vet

 

[maccarooni]

I don't see why you should need to put this on the cert as long as your loop is below max why should you need to put it down. It is causing you more work.Batty

agreed batty.

i guess this is just one of those things.

The annoying thing is ....until these maxs are memorised its another book cluttering up the dashboard

Macca

 

[Apache]

i see your point,oh while we are on,my rabbit needs his claws cutting,can i do it myself or do i need to take him to a vet

 

[Shakey]

Steady on mate. Special Location is top poster on here and therfore top dog!He's answering in his normal manner. He's been helpful and refering back to specific points.

Mr location is very respectful. I'm sure you are welcome here but bear in mind that there's an established pecking order coming along as a newbie and being confrontational is not the way to go.

Well i honestly dont beilieve in pecking orders

being so called 'top dog' has nothing to do with anything

Monty felt (as I did) that this chaps reply to my perfectly innocent post was aggressive, confrontational and rude.

Anyones percieved postion in some imagined heirachy does not give them carte blanche to jump all over another member just because they didnt reply in HIS particular manner and happen to be a 'newbie' (I hate that word!)

I have no wish to get into a tussle with anybody, but was such a reply really neccessary?

 

[PAUL M]

but someone told me apache, if you cut the claws incorectly they can bleed to death.true or false,cheers

 

[Apache]

but someone told me if you cut the claws incorectly they can bleed to death.true or false,cheers

Ah you have to try hard to get it to bleed to death. With white claws there's a pink 'quick' you must avoid. Black claws are trickier. If you have a mix of white and black claws use the white claws as a guide for the black

If all black claws take things back gradually a couple of mm at a time. If you get blood talc stops it, as does one of those sticks they sell in chemists for shaving wounds.

Every vet I know stil makes the odd nail bleed every now and again

 

[sparkyork]

im in agreement too, pecking orders are a load of old horse poo! thats what a forum is about, pecking orders indicate power (as someone else posted, mods and admin have that "power") but to every one else were all individual and all have our own view points.

last time i heard the phrase pecking order was about 12 years ago when i use to argue the toss with other trades why i had to make all the cups of T. they would all say cos of the pecking order! phhtt no such thing imo, spesh not on a forum (unless your admin or mod?)

rich e roo

 

[Apache]

Monty felt (as I did) that this chaps reply to my perfectly innocent post was aggressive, confrontational and rude.

No it wasn't

I have no wish to get into a tussle with anybody, but was such a reply really neccessary?

Was a clear well written post that made far more sense than yours!

 

[sparkyork]

now now that sounds a bit antogonising! lol