Multiple Dusk Dawn Pir Security Lights Wiring

[p.mc]

Hi I want to add 3 security lights to cover 3 areas of my back yard (3 side extension) with dusk dawn and PIR sensors including on/off timers for the lamps, so they will only operate at a certain light level, each have their own PIR plus lamp illumination timers.
 
Using 3 core & earth fed from a Switched spur unit and override light switch. Each light fitting will have a S/L terminal.
2 x Bulkheads 60-100w and 1 x flood 300-500w.
 
Can i feed all the fittings in parallel using 3 core & earth (Sensor feeds and S/L overide) with 1 x Flood Dusk Dawn/PIR/Timer and 2 x bulkheads PIR/Dusk Dawn/Timer and expect them to work as implied?
 
I suppose the only problem would be if there was no D,Dawn and timer adjustments on some fittings as some would come on at different light levels.or stay on permanent.
 
Please see image below...
 
http://s81.photobucket.com/user/npilcs/media/Lighting/Back%20Yard%20lighting%20and%20design.jpg.html]

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[Murdoch]

Far too complicated IMHO

KISS

 

[Lurch]

Pretty much any off the shelf light/PIR combo is going to have a photocell built in (can't say I can recall ever seeing one that doesn't) so that petty much answers the question.

 

[p.mc]

Pretty much any off the shelf light/PIR combo is going to have a photocell built in (can't say I can recall ever seeing one that doesn't) so that petty much answers the question.

Just stating requirements to ease with replies, whereas I could have just had a couple of lights paralleled for illumination alone, plus some D/Dawn models stay on till dusk dawn without a timer etc.

Far too complicated IMHO

KISS

I did say "What is the best way..." So I'd welcome your input if you think it should be done another way thanks. 

It's pretty basic...All fittings have the required sensors needed, plus a S/L terminal then paralleled. Switched fed sensors plus common on light switch from a 5a SW fused spur, light switch to override the sensors.

What in your opinion would be the a better set up thanks.

 

[NozSpark]

You're far too complicated at the switch fuse spur and switch.

Take a L,N & E to the switch, switch the L and then take SL, L, N & E to the fittings (via a junction box if needed)

Now ,, whichever light activates will set the time & lux level for the other lights,,, if a second light is triggered then the one with more time to go will set the time

 

[New Venture!]

I did one recently for a country house. Three lights, one on each side of a converted barn, three gang MK grid switch to control each light separately.

LED floodlights, each with built-in PIR, dusk/dawn sensor and adjustable on/off time. Three core hi-tuf (NYY-J) cable feeding each unit.

Any use?

J

 

[Lurch]

Just stating requirements to ease with replies, whereas I could have just had a couple of lights paralleled for illumination alone, plus some D/Dawn models stay on till dusk dawn without a timer etc.

I did say "What is the best way..." So I'd welcome your input if you think it should be done another way thanks. 

It's pretty basic...All fittings have the required sensors needed, plus a S/L terminal then paralleled. Switched fed sensors plus common on light switch from a 5a SW fused spur, light switch to override the sensors.

What in your opinion would be the a better set up thanks.

I have absolutely no idea what any of the above means.

 

[p.mc]

You're far too complicated at the switch fuse spur and switch.

Take a L,N & E to the switch, switch the L and then take SL, L, N & E to the fittings (via a junction box if needed)

Now ,, whichever light activates will set the time & lux level for the other lights,,, if a second light is triggered then the one with more time to go will set the time

Yes the way you stated would work (Fed from lighting circuit), but unfortunately incorrect about the switched spur & switch. This is a necessity needed to act as an double pole isolator and fuse step down to a 5amp fuse as the S/Spur is on a kitchen ring main on a 32amp mcb circuit. The separate lighting switch would be mounted next to the spur with a live link feed from the secondary side of the switched spur, allowing total isolation to the light fittings when needed.

Even if it was from the lighting circuit I would still probably put a double pole isolator switch before the switch also for convenience.

Thanks

 

[Lurch]

Yes the way you stated would work (Fed from lighting circuit), but unfortunately incorrect about the switched spur & switch. This is a necessity needed to act as an double pole isolator and fuse step down to a 5amp fuse as the S/Spur is on a kitchen ring main on a 32amp mcb circuit. The separate lighting switch would be mounted next to the spur with a live link feed from the secondary side of the switched spur, allowing total isolation to the light fittings when needed.

Even if it was from the lighting circuit I would still probably put a double pole isolator switch before the switch also for convenience.

You do realise you are posting on a forum full of electricians? Pretty sure the electrician you asked for advice knows what a fused spur is.

You are out of your depth, please do not do any electrical work on your home. This is not the start of a discussion on the subject, I am not replying to anything beyond this so do not try and tell me you are quite safe and competent.

 

[NozSpark]

Yes the way you stated would work (Fed from lighting circuit), but unfortunately incorrect about the switched spur & switch. This is a necessity needed to act as an double pole isolator and fuse step down to a 5amp fuse as the S/Spur is on a kitchen ring main on a 32amp mcb circuit. The separate lighting switch would be mounted next to the spur with a live link feed from the secondary side of the switched spur, allowing total isolation to the light fittings when needed.

Even if it was from the lighting circuit I would still probably put a double pole isolator switch before the switch also for convenience.

Thanks

:shakehead

Thanks for that,,, as Lurch says we do this kind of thing day in day out (in our sleep)

As I said,,, you've over complicated the switch fuse spur/switch... I never said to do away with the switch fuse spur, just that you should take everything through the switch rather than have 2 cables coming from 2 different switches..

It's up to you if you take this advice or not,,, personally I dont care,,, it sounds like youre going to do what you want anyhow

 

[p.mc]

I did one recently for a country house. Three lights, one on each side of a converted barn, three gang MK grid switch to control each light separately.

LED floodlights, each with built-in PIR, dusk/dawn sensor and adjustable on/off time. Three core hi-tuf (NYY-J) cable feeding each unit.

Any use?

J

Thanks J. But I don't mind switching all three at the same time, and it saves on cable expense, unless running 3 single cables Switch lives from the 3 way switch...Good call though..."Thanks"

I suppose I'l do it as stated, just wondering whether to use a stand alone D/Dawn to make a saving...

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

2 x Bulkheads 60-100w and 1 x flood 300-500w.
 
 

I would have a good look at the various  LED / low energy options rather than 60w/100w & 300w/500w options!

Personally I would use standalone PIR's / Dusk-Dawn sensors etc

and just bog standard external lamps worked from these sensors as...

a)  Generally more options for the types of lights if they don't have built in sensors...

b) The best position for a light is not always the best position for its controlling sensor...

c) If a sensor packs in you don't have to replace with a complete light & sensor..

Guinness

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

As has been said, you are over complicating things with your separate times and photocells, not to mention 100watt lamps.

Why not have LED floodlights with built in PIR? These also have a photocell so they do not work in natural light, and some will stay on if switch the supply off then on again in a short time.

 

[p.mc]

:shakehead

Thanks for that,,, as Lurch says we do this kind of thing day in day out (in our sleep)

As I said,,, you've over complicated the switch fuse spur/switch... I never said to do away with the switch fuse spur, just that you should take everything through the switch rather than have 2 cables coming from 2 different switches..

It's up to you if you take this advice or not,,, personally I dont care,,, it sounds like youre going to do what you want anyhow

Not trying to inflame anyone and I am grateful for replies, but that is what I am doing, taking the 3 core and earth from the S/Spur unit to feed and switch the fittings. I know my wiring diagram doesn't show it like that but just the actual paths...My bad. I will be mounting the light switch & SW/Spur on a dual metal switch box, so the light switch will be fed from a link from the secondary side of the SW/Spur as I'm sure you know, and just the 3 core & earth cable going to the fittings. I mixed up your reply because you just used the term switch so thought you'd eliminated the S/Spur, my apologies.

I didn't realise you were all qualified electricians as some skill sets didn't show that on all. I just thought it was a site for have a go sparks...again my bad.

Please except my apologies and thanks for the replies, they were appreciated.

 

[p.mc]

I would have a good look at the various  LED / low energy options rather than 60w/100w & 300w/500w options!

Personally I would use standalone PIR's / Dusk-Dawn sensors etc

and just bog standard external lamps worked from these sensors as...

a)  Generally more options for the types of lights if they don't have built in sensors...

b) The best position for a light is not always the best position for its controlling sensor...

c) If a sensor packs in you don't have to replace with a complete light & sensor..

Guinness

Food for thought. I think the leds are still a bit pricey at present though. If using standalone I was a bit confused how to wire them for ease. I suppose they are just a switch, so I x D/Dawn (if it can handle 3?) and 3 PIRs.

Could it be wired as the other, and just use a separate connector block from live feed in the fitting to the stand alone PIR and return on neutral (now S?L to fittings feed) but would the fitting still have to have a S/L connection; or even 2 S?L connections?

 

[p.mc]

Here is a better diagram of the wiring with switches in a dual metal back box.

 

[steptoe]

some standalone PIRs require a neutral, I would always wire a neutral anyway,

LEDs are quite cheap for the smaller sizes, a rough estimation is 10% of traditional wattage, but lumens output is more accurate,

a 10w LED will give you more usable light than a 100w bulkhead, and be considerable cheaper to run.

 

[p.mc]

some standalone PIRs require a neutral, I would always wire a neutral anyway,

LEDs are quite cheap for the smaller sizes, a rough estimation is 10% of traditional wattage, but lumens output is more accurate,

a 10w LED will give you more usable light than a 100w bulkhead, and be considerable cheaper to run.

Thanks steptoe...Great info and advice. And I suppose as you say it will pay for itself quicker in the long run...

These are not a bad price, could be useful for the sides and maybe something slightly higher for the front...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Waterpoof-Outdoor-Security-Floodlight-85-264V/dp/B00HZXSUWK/ref=sr_1_19?s=lighting&ie=UTF8&qid=1424570385&sr=1-19

 

[p.mc]

would this work with LED and could it serve 3 fittings if that is a possible option?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/PHOTOCELL-ACORN-LIGHT-SENSOR-DUSK/dp/B0072ICJ0C/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_3?s=lighting&ie=UTF8&qid=1424570657&sr=1-3-fkmr1&keywords=standalone+dusk+dawn+sensor

3 of these maybe...Has adjustable timer 5secs 12mins

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Byron-ES90W-Motion-Detector-Switch/dp/B001B0P11Q/ref=sr_1_3?s=lighting&ie=UTF8&qid=1424571001&sr=1-3&keywords=standalone+pir

If so wiring? would it be a case of looping in/out D/Dawn, then to each PIR  & Fitting in series with the override S/L (each fitting must have an extra S/L terminal though?

Just noticed they have 3 core flex, so I suppose just connect both the sensors switch feeds and light switch feed to the LEDs live feed?

 

[steptoe]

both those will be fine,

you dont have a 'sl' at the light if using external pir,

simply connect your pir switch wire, and your actual switch switch wire to the live wire at the light.

looking at your drawing, if it is sort of to scale, it doesnt look that large an area tbh,

the rear section would prob be ok with a 10w LED as well, or maybe 2 of them simply to give you a good spread of light, mount them about 12-14' high should be ok.