New Growatt SPH + Li6532 Installation queries

[David_1224]

Hi,

I'm posting this as much for initial comment by any of the long standing members who have similar installations but ultimately as information for any other new PV users who may find this useful.
Always assuming I get this sorted and working.
System was installed 12th January.
Everything done neatly and on time however the Wi-Fi dongle failed to connect and installer, believing it to be faulty, took it away with the promise of returning on Monday 15th to complete.
Suffice to say this didn't happen as promised so I've only been able to interface with the system through the SPH front panel to date.
I've been back and forth with the installer eventually getting a "confirmed" revisit date of Jan 30th.

In the meantime my review of the system has thrown up a few issues / concerns. (shared with the installer)
The biggest being that the battery back-up, which although set for "load first" priority, is failing to charge from any excess available from the PV array.
Despite it being winter we have managed 4 or 5 clear sunny days and I've got a perfect south facing installation.
I've attached a photo of the utility meter / Henley blocks / consumer unit layout below which shows the CT clamp positioned on the tail from the Henley block to the consumer unit.
Meaning the CT is only ever measuring current flow to the load.
As per Growatt manual this should actually be in the tail from the utility meter to the Henley block i.e. on the Grid side of the junction so as to pick up import and export.
Unfortunately the tails are too short, and tight, for me to be able to move it "just to give it a go" so will require action by the installer.
The installer employee I initially dealt with suggested this "didn't matter" .
Surely this is a pre-requisite for flagging the inverter that the system is in a state to charge the battery with excess PV output?



The battery is however taking charge from the grid for short periods after dark to the tune of about 1.0 -1.2 kWh. I'm assuming this is to hold / protect the battery at or around a minimum charge level which appears to be ~10%. and is where the battery has been since installation. To date battery has pulled about 14kWh from the grid.
Obviously without a web interface I can't yet check if there are any other settings which may be affecting this but believe the CT position to be the primary issue.

This leads on to the other interesting discovery.
The generation meter fitted is a unidirectional Emlite ECA2.z. Provided, I'm told, to record the total power generated from the PV installation.
Interestingly this appears to be wired in reverse as the only thing it's recording is the charge to the battery, from the grid, overnight.
I say interesting because if the bi-directional "Net energy" version ECA2.nz were fitted, with the current wiring orientation, it would record 1. generation to grid (PV + battery), 2. grid to battery and net production (1-2) values. I've gleaned this from the Emlite data sheets.
Contact again states that "they only fit the one type" and it's a "waste of time".
Interesting why, if they only fit a unidirectional meter, it's apparently been wired in reverse. Particularly as the inverter is to the left of the meter and the grid to the right. I'd think the wires would then fall naturally to the forward wiring. Inverter to terminals 1 2 ; Grid on 3 4. Which ought to record produced from PV + battery.
To be inspected on up-coming visit and I could be wrong.

Finally neither the Battery or Inverter enclosure earths have been connected. I'd expect these to be in place as they are called out in the Growatt documentation and an earth strap is listed in the packing list for the battery. Both class 1 so surely required?

Comments are welcome.
I shall update the post as the story unfolds.

 

[binky]

try the CT clamp on the red meter tail.

we usually wire the meter to record energy from the solar, so 'in reverse' is normal. Since the demise of the FiT scheme, it's a bit useless anyway, as that is what it was used for, ie reocording energy generated to claim FiT patments.

 

[David_1224]

try the CT clamp on the red meter tail.

we usually wire the meter to record energy from the solar, so 'in reverse' is normal. Since the demise of the FiT scheme, it's a bit useless anyway, as that is what it was used for, ie reocording energy generated to claim FiT patments.

Yes I was going to try that but the CT is so tight on the tail I don't want to bust it. I opened it up but it will require some force to shift and there's virtually no movement in the wire it's that short.
With the installer returning Tuesday don't want to have to explain why its broke.
Get your point about the meter but its only reading battery charge from grid. So it's not even doing what it was supposed to. Shame that the bi-directional version is only about a tenner more, retail, than the one fitted.

 

[David_1224]

Dug out an old OWL CT and monitor which I used to have on the system pre PV just to look at the red cable to the utility meter. However kW readout doesn't tie up very well with anything reported on the other side of the meter. Probably a calibration issue but doesn't seem to follow the power steps reported on the IHD from smart meter so not just a simple off-set. Probably best left to one side as not adding anything to the story other than confusion.
Should add waited until there was no chance of any export to the grid so it's only to the load. OWL CT is not directional, as far as I remember.

 

[johnb2713]

If youre on Octopus, request an Octopus Mini, it gives you virtually real time data from your smart meter(s)

 

[David_1224]

Thanks John but I'm unfortunately not.
My original intent was to use the battery for storing excess PV output to bleed back in after sunset to ease the load. I felt I'd sized the system to match our "background" usage. I'm not considering looking for an off peak tariff either. (at east not for now).
You can appreciate my frustration however as the battery is not being charged at all from the PV but is drawing charge from the grid during the night. I assume to protect the 10% minimum charge level. Net result is that (on average) the amount saved during the day is being wiped out by the overnight charge. It has bled about 1kWh back to load, according to the Inverter totals records but has taken about 15kWh from the grid over the same period. I don't have any measure as yet as to what's been fed back to the grid but I'd much rather that was in my battery as intended and not benefitting Scottish Power.........

Do either you or binky agree with my position with regard the position of the CT clamp?

In my mind its the reason the for the charging (or not) problem.
In addition if I look at the display on the Inverter when the PV array is exceeding consumption the arrows indicate load is being supplied from the Inverter AND the grid. Which to me says the CT is in the wrong place.
I want to feel confident I'm on reasonably firm ground when the installer rep returns on Tuesday.

 

[johnb2713]

Turn off the AC charging in the settings, that will stop it. The protection will occur with how low it can discharge.

 

[David_1224]

Yep that's where I hope to get to once I have a web interface....which is ostensibly what installer visit is about Tuesday to return with, and set up the Wi-Fi dongle, which they removed when concluding that the supplied one was faulty.
At same time I want to persuade them that there's a CT issues and sort some additional earthing.
Might be a stretch to expect all to be resolved in one go. Depends on who they send to do the job.
I look forward however to turning off Ac Charge.

 

[johnb2713]

Yep that's where I hope to get to once I have a web interface....which is ostensibly what installer visit is about Tuesday to return with, and set up the Wi-Fi dongle, which they removed when concluding that the supplied one was faulty.
At same time I want to persuade them that there's a CT issues and sort some additional earthing.
Might be a stretch to expect all to be resolved in one go. Depends on who they send to do the job.
I look forward however to turning off Ac Charge.

Take a good look at tariffs available before you write off AC Import. With Octopus, export is paid at 15p and off peak import 7.5p so I never charge from solar, I export it all. There are also grid balancing sessions where Octopus pay upto £4 kWh for export.

 

[David_1224]

Just as an aside is there any documentation available anywhere related to the advanced settings for the SPH?
Watching posts on this forum it appears that quite a few folk get tripped up by these settings. Details only seem to come from other members who've clearly delved deeper and got to grips with them.
Basic user / installation manuals only provide barest minimum and that can be hard work to follow on first reading.

 

[johnb2713]

Just as an aside is there any documentation available anywhere related to the advanced settings for the SPH?

In a word - NO

 

[David_1224]

Very much as I expected.
I can only have thanks and admiration for those of you who make the time to monitor what goes up here and contribute and share so much of your knowledge and experience.
Of great concern however is the thought of just how many people are left with systems that are either less than optimal or just plain wrong and are fed BS and scant information by their installers.
Accepting, that is, that I have to recognise that not all installers out there are less than competent and other manufacturers probably provide better and more detailed support documentation.
Not everyone is tech savvy and not all will look to search out forums such as this.

 

[Portsolar]

I wonder if you have now resolved issues. The CT clamp certainly looks to be in the wrong place. Its purpose (I think) is to tell the inverter about power to or from the grid. With it on the consumer unit supply it will only ever give a one-directional reading.
Scottish Power offer the SEG payment so your Emlite meter needs to read the Export value. The "n" version reads Import and Net as well, but these aren't needed for a SEG claim. See :
https://www.jwsmartmeters.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/ECA2-NET-meter-user-guide-v1.1.pdfif you haven't already. Hopefully I haven't created any more confusion.

 

[David_1224]

Hi
Time for the update.
Installation team returned Tuesday to sort the Wi-Fi.
Actually installed a ShineLan Box and, what I believe, to be an RF dongle to the Inverter.
I'm in the process of trying to get hold of some detail information on these. Not really keen on hooking stuff up to the router without having specific detail.
Suffice to say however I now have online monitoring and can at least get an idea of what's going on and when.

Back to the installation itself the electricians were persuaded to loosen the tails at the Henley box so the CT clamp could be removed and had it placed on the live input to the utility meter. No space in the tail from Henley bloc to utility meter. Quite clear during the conversation that they really didn't have a clear understanding of what it was about and they simply follow a basic set of installation instruction. Initially fitted the clamp with arrow to the meter, cos been told "it always points to the meter". Explained why it's to the Grid and once turned around everything configured, as expected, and as it was, luckily, sunny the battery showed as being charged from the inverter. Surprise on their part and relief on mine.
So principle issue has, as expected, been addressed.
As to the generation meter that's still to be cleared up.
Thanks Portsolar for your input. As you say the "n" version would be the variant of choice to fit and I appreciate they are not required for the SEG payments.
What intrigues me about my installation is that the ECA2.z fitted has been wired as if it's the ECA2.nz. Data sheets show that the inverter / grid inputs are reversed between the two variants. Even though my .z variant has a wiring diagram on inside of the cover it's been wired in the opposite direction. So only records input from the grid to the battery.
I'm labouring this a bit really. The "sparks" were adamant they only fit the one flavour of meter and that's the way they are "told to do it". I've got a "Solar installations" manager coming sometime and I'll thrash that one out with him.

Personally I'd like to have the .Net version as that would give me an accurate figure of imports / exports from the PV installation. For £42 I'll fit one myself if I don't get any joy. For me it's a nice to have not a necessity.

Re Battery charge I've checked the A.C. charge settings as per reply above from Johnb2713 and it's disabled and I'm on Load First priority
Now although excess PV is directed to charge the battery I still get random instances of grid power charging the battery during the night or in the day if there's no PV
It's always at a rate of about ~300W for an hour or so and takes the charge from 10% to about 12%.
This then discharges back to load, which is minimal at night, until battery returns to 10% but system then stays like that for upwards of 6 hours before it repeats the cycle.
Does anybody else see this behaviour?
Does anybody know of any other settings which might be causing this?

 

[binky]

Re Battery charge I've checked the A.C. charge settings as per reply above from Johnb2713 and it's disabled and I'm on Load First priority
Now although excess PV is directed to charge the battery I still get random instances of grid power charging the battery during the night or in the day if there's no PV
It's always at a rate of about ~300W for an hour or so and takes the charge from 10% to about 12%.
This then discharges back to load, which is minimal at night, until battery returns to 10% but system then stays like that for upwards of 6 hours before it repeats the cycle.
Does anybody else see this behaviour?
Does anybody know of any other settings which might be causing this?

this has been discussed several times on here, it's an annoying self maintenance function that drives everyone around the twist!

 

[David_1224]

Ah thanks binky
I'd got the impression this only occurred at specific times (light levels!) so just a bit surprised when they appeared in the middle of the night.
Obviously got the wrong end of the stick.
Guess just have to live with it.
As you say, annoying, and not a little frustrating, considering I wanted to minimise grid usage. System sized to more than cover basic needs and have the battery just about carry the background load through the night. (assuming a full charge)
On a poor PV day any benefit gets almost wiped out by the amount taken from the grid. Better off turning the battery off.
What you get back is not quite what was put in.

 

[binky]

Things will improve rapidly as the days get longer and brighter. You might want to consider off peak tariffs for charging the battery overnight, again discussed a lot on here.

 

[stuboy]

If you dont want it to "force charge" you will need to set you min SOC percentage higher, or if your battery's allow your Force charge percentage lower. Solis released a new firmware for their hybrids that now include this, bout time too!
Cheers
Stu

 

[johnb2713]

If you dont want it to "force charge" you will need to set you min SOC percentage higher, or if your battery's allow your Force charge percentage lower.

Not needed, just switch AC charge off as per my screenshot.

Solis released a new firmware for their hybrids that now include this, bout time too!
Cheers
Stu

It seems a complicated way instead of using a timer function.

 

[stuboy]

If the battery gets below what ever the force charge % is it will still force charge regardless of anything you set wont it?
I await enlightenment ;-)