Oceangate

[johnb2713]

A major concern for this mini sub thats vanished. Looking at it on TV this morning the thing is controlled by playstation controllers and with little evidence of backup systems. Having worked offshore as an ROV Senior Pilot / Tech, the pressure on systems at this depth is around 5800psi making detection and recovery very difficult. Most systems would have an acoustic alarm beacon which should easily locate the sub but it seems that this sub doesn't have one or it's not working.

 

[binky]

I have to say I'll be impressed if they manage to rescue the sub, 2.5m deep, little can go that far down.

 

[johnb2713]

I have to say I'll be impressed if they manage to rescue the sub, 2.5m deep, little can go that far down.

It would have to be with an ROV attaching flotation or lines to it. I have worked with ROV's at 9000 metres during the past, the problems it creates is horrendous. Oil filled cables to stand the pressure, you cant use electrolytic capacitors they get crushed, Motors have to have pressure compensation to avoid the massive pressure difference between inside and out, hydraulic pumps have to be specially built, the pressure on the outside is greater than the pressure they produce, all junction and termination boxes, plugs and sockets are oil fill and pressure compensated. One of our party tricks was take a polstyrene cup down depth, when we came back the large cup was the size a thimble.

 

[Geoff1946]

What awful thoughts! I couldn't get into that thing if it were stood on firm ground!

 

[UNG]

The more that comes out on this incident it seems it was one of those incidents that was waiting to happen and it looks like the luck ran out on this trip.
I think there will be a lot of questions asked in the aftermath of this incident, the fact that there appears to be very little to no surface backup for the sub once it is lauched and it seems to be that quite a lot is left to chance for what is around a 10 hour dive and with no guarantee of actually seeing the Titanic, can't help but feel that this company was winging it in more ways than one

 

[Andy™]

looking at some pic / videos of the sub, im not surprised it doesn't work. someone probably forgot to charge the batteries in the controller before they set off

 

[Murdoch]

My sympathy is with the families of the missing

 

[Geoff1946]

The whole thing sounds horrific from what's been broadcast. Imagine utilising a cheap games controller to control ANY vehicle, let alone a high risk submersible.
Fly by wire systems use at least triplicate channels constantly cross monitored and constructed from the highest quality components to start with. I've also heard no mention of location beacons which I would have expected.

 

[johnb2713]

The whole thing sounds horrific from what's been broadcast. Imagine utilising a cheap games controller to control ANY vehicle, let alone a high risk submersible.
Fly by wire systems use at least triplicate channels constantly cross monitored and constructed from the highest quality components to start with. I've also heard no mention of location beacons which I would have expected.

The whole thing sounds a complete mess. It has weights attached to make it negatively buoyant i.e. it sinks, when it needs to come up it drops the weights, what a crazy idea, if the weights dont release? What if you need to slow the ascent for any reason? They claim not to guarantee seeing the titanic which suggests their skillset / equipment is sub standard (no pun intended), modern tech can get cm accuracies under water and we would absolutely manage to get to the Titanic with an ROV without a problem.
It seems to me this was ill thought out, they should have used ROV technology with a pilot on the surface remotely flying the sub. It would be tethered to to surface vehicle, easily recovered and have a virtually unlimited power supply going down to to provide air, heat, comms etc.

 

[binky]

That's what got me this morning, listening to someone who had done the trip. They get to the bottom without knowing exactly where the wreck is, and then have to go looking for it.

 

[Andy™]

They get to the bottom without knowing exactly where the wreck is, and then have to go looking for it.

surely its in the same place everytime

 

[johnb2713]

That's what got me this morning, listening to someone who had done the trip. They get to the bottom without knowing exactly where the wreck is, and then have to go looking for it.

Thats one of the crazy things about this setup. With ROV's there's a pole that sticks out under the vessel, USBL Ultra Short Base Line. It has an acoustic transducer like sonar and with clever tech involved the ROV can be accurately placed relative to the vessel. The vessel can of course use GPS or some of the more accurate maritime systems to be in a know position so we could get an ROV within cm's of where we need to be. On one job we had to recommission an abandoned wellhead, its a 20" diameter steel pipe sticking up out the ground by around a metre. We got to the location and it wasn't there but so confident with the positioning we started to dig (using water jets), 4 metres down we found the well head, the sand on the seabed had been drifted and buried the wellhead. The equipment is there for accurate positioning and this company doesn't use it, why? I can imagine my response to their offer - £200,000 for a trip to see the Titanic (you might not actually see it if we cant find it), you get to sit on the floor in a cramped mini sub for 10 hours.

 

[johnb2713]

surely its in the same place everytime

It sure is, it's just they dont know where they are! how mad is that?

 

[Andy™]

should have left some breadcrumbs on the way up from the last time, probably more accurate locating the wreck than their current system

 

[binky]

It sure is, it's just they dont know where they are! how mad is that?

Especially given they have done multiple trips.

Would the depth make location equipment less accurate?

 

[johnb2713]

Especially given they have done multiple trips.

Would the depth make location equipment less accurate?

Yes it would but not enough to miss the Titanic which is a bit big

 

[Sharpend]

Maybe they are confused as there is more than one titanic? ( well it did break into two parts!)

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Obviously at this time there are various family relatives and friends who are very concerned they may not see their loved ones again....

So I take a moment to pause and offer prayers and thoughts for their current distress...



With that in mind.......
I still can't quite get my head around how it is legally possible for a company to offer trips to paying untrained customers into a highly dangerous environment in a vessel that appears to have little or no secondary emergency back-up safety equipment or procedures..??

I recall many years ago a TV documentary about space exploration, where several parallels and dangers were compared with manned deep sea exploration....
Basically if things go pear shaped in either environment... The chances of a successful rescue are very slim!!

 

[Mike P]

I hope they get rescued. The problem is it is unregulated so rules don’t apply. My feelings are people should leave the Titanic alone as it is a grave. I worked on the project when Bob Ballard discovered it in the 80’s and a plaque was left saying RIP and you will not get disturbed again. Fat chance, they have looted and pillaged it. Rescue the poor people down there and put a ban on tourist trips, and treat it the same as a war grave.

 

[Slateral]

It would have to be with an ROV attaching flotation or lines to it. I have worked with ROV's at 9000 metres during the past, the problems it creates is horrendous. Oil filled cables to stand the pressure, you cant use electrolytic capacitors they get crushed, Motors have to have pressure compensation to avoid the massive pressure difference between inside and out, hydraulic pumps have to be specially built, the pressure on the outside is greater than the pressure they produce, all junction and termination boxes, plugs and sockets are oil fill and pressure compensated. One of our party tricks was take a polstyrene cup down depth, when we came back the large cup was the size a thimble.

I kept one! This is from Offshore Nile Delta sometime in the 2000's (Sedco Express I think) It was an Oceaneering ROV that sent a bunch of them down in a small cargo net - only 715m water depth but already less that half size.
Might have been you, John?