Operation Of The Emergency Lighting Test Switch Should Not Affect The Normal Lighting

[Quantum]

[SIZE=11pt]CIBSE Lighting Guide 12: Emergency lighting design guide section 6.3.3 Manual test devices states the following:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]...'Manual test devices should initiate the emergency changeover  circuit and activate the lamp from the battery. The arrangements should be adequate and appropriate for the application'...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Following that the statutory document BS 5266-1:2011 section 8.3.3 Test facility, states the following:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]...'Each emergency lighting system should have suitable means for simulating failure of the normal supply for test purposes (i.e. without interruption of the normal supply).'... read: turn permanent live off with the key-switch instead isolating the DB or MCB[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Also[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]BS 5266-1:2011 Figure F.3 Model completion certificate – Installation – Declaration of conformity, Recommendations:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]IN9 The system has suitable and appropriate testing facilities for the specific site ( by the way referenced as 9.3.3 - that's old reference from BS 5266-1:2005)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Following this thread when you finish your installation you must test the lighting levels and using the test facility provided (how would you test the EM lux levels with standard lighting ON[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Reference BS 5266-1:2011  Annex B:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]...'All site test work needs to be carried out by simulating a failure of the normal electrical supply and, where practicable, by using the test facilities provided'...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Summary[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I cannot see anywhere in the British or European standards requirements to maintain the standard lighting ON while operating 'Test facility switch' or statement  that would say ...' Operation of the emergency lighting test switch should not affect the normal lighting'...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]As long as the system has suitable and appropriate testing facilities for the specific site its compliant...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Do you agree? If not can you provide some back up legal requirements, rather than just short statement ...[/SIZE]

 

[septiclecky]

With the current CDM regulations etc when designing an electrical installation I can't see why it can't not be designed that when testing emergency lights that the normal lights stay on, all you have to do is use a double pole key switch so when you switch it off you turn both the permanent supply and the switched supply to emergency lights only.

It would make it a lot easier when you carry out a 3 hour test as if the building is used 24/7/365 then you aren't blacking out the whole building.

[SIZE=11pt]font-family: calibri, sans-serif">CIBSE Lighting Guide 12: Emergency lighting design guide section 6.3.3 Manual test devices states the following:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]...'Manual test devices should initiate the emergency changeover  circuit and activate the lamp from the battery. The arrangements should be adequate and appropriate for the application'...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Following that the statutory document BS 5266-1:2011 section 8.3.3 Test facility, states the following:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]...'Each emergency lighting system should have suitable means for simulating failure of the normal supply for test purposes (i.e. without interruption of the normal supply).'... read: turn permanent live off with the key-switch instead isolating the DB or MCB[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Also[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]BS 5266-1:2011 Figure F.3 Model completion certificate – Installation – Declaration of conformity, Recommendations:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]IN9 The system has suitable and appropriate testing facilities for the specific site ( by the way referenced as 9.3.3 - that's old reference from BS 5266-1:2005)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Following this thread when you finish your installation you must test the lighting levels and using the test facility provided (how would you test the EM lux levels with standard lighting ON [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]You would have to remove the supply via the fuse/MCB to simulate a total blackout[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Reference BS 5266-1:2011  Annex B:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]...'All site test work needs to be carried out by simulating a failure of the normal electrical supply and, where practicable, by using the test facilities provided'...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Summary[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I cannot see anywhere in the British or European standards requirements to maintain the standard lighting ON while operating 'Test facility switch' or statement  that would say ...' Operation of the emergency lighting test switch should not affect the normal lighting'...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]As long as the system has suitable and appropriate testing facilities for the specific site its compliant...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Do you agree? If not can you provide some back up legal requirements, rather than just short statement ...[/SIZE]

 

[Quantum]

Thanks for reply, what I am trying to do is to prove NICEIC technical support wrong...

Their advice is that  Operation Of The Emergency Lighting Test Switch Should Not Affect The Normal Lighting....

And while i do understand where they coming from as they quoted  reg. 8.3.3 …’ (i.e. without interruption of the normal supply).’..  but that's not the same as :…’ should not affect the operation of the normal lighting’.. 

And that what their argument is... seems to be the only one reason they insist on..

But that would mean that 90% of UK EM lighting installations do not comply with the requirements as it is common practice to kill both switch line and permanent supply with the key switch...

 

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Every single reply given by the NICEIC tech line is for that question only & cant be used in all circumstances. They are correct in that 'general' reply though as it could be dangerous to power down the lighting in occupied building for 3 hours. However you have to put some common sense into the equation, one example is many lighting schemes have occupancy sensors operating the normal lighting, when switching off the permanent live how would you know if its the batteries or the switched supply that is making them light so the whole circuit would have to be switched off. The  same applies to maintained type fittings, how would you know whats making the lights illuminate without powering down ?

 

[kme]

[quote name="quantum" =[COLOR=rgb(31' date='73,125)]I cannot see anywhere in the British or European standards requirements to maintain the standard lighting [/COLOR]ON while operating 'Test facility switch' or statement  that would say ...' Operation of the emergency lighting test switch should not affect the normal lighting'..."

I cannot look right now; but there IS wording, almost verbatim, to the underlined above.

I`m certain it is in 5266; but need to confirm before I commit myself.

This doesn`t mean many installs do not comply - the test switch should only act on the em lights; not the generic lighting circuit in the same area.

HTH

KME

 

[Quantum]

Being engineer, I have difficulty to 'just' agree whith the statement :Operation of the emergency lighting test switch should not affect the normal lighting.

Based on 5266-1:2011 section 8.3.3 ONLY 

I have discussed this with my fellow engineers at work and opinions seems to be divided 50/50 therefore there is a lot of doubt - bit to much for such a important issue. I would say.

 

[Steve3948]

Every single reply given by the NICEIC tech line is for that question only & cant be used in all circumstances. They are correct in that 'general' reply though as it could be dangerous to power down the lighting in occupied building for 3 hours. However you have to put some common sense into the equation, one example is many lighting schemes have occupancy sensors operating the normal lighting, when switching off the permanent live how would you know if its the batteries or the switched supply that is making them light so the whole circuit would have to be switched off. The  same applies to maintained type fittings, how would you know whats making the lights illuminate without powering down ?

I think the LED power light for the charger would be a sign  :innocent

 

[Quantum]

KME 

Thanks, try maybe you can find it, I've spend good few hours on the subject and the best references I could come up with are those in my first thread.... So decided to ask YOU guys, hoping to use more brains as I am hitting wall

 

[Quantum]

I think the LED power light for the charger would be a sign  :innocent

When I carry out EM LTG test in large open plan office I prefer to switch both lights off, permanent supply to EM LTG and switch line so all the lights are OFF

Than I can see clearly which EM luminaries are working correctly.... Otherwise it is easy to miss odd fitting among few hundred luminaries that are switched ON, as easy to miss green LED indicator.

baring in mind that majority of the existing office installations are wired that way so the key switch kills both supplies - it would mean that all of those installations do not comply with the 2011 version of the standard as the 2005 has been worded slightly different ...

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I think the LED power light for the charger would be a sign  :innocent

Firstly, although its wrong you cant see the LED power light a lot of the times, other times you just cant see it when the tube is illuminated.

Secondly I know of a make where the power light appears to be connected across the battery ( although not from the wiring diagram). I make  comment on it each time I test the lights and the customer shows me the instructions to say its correct.

Third point is  some lights now have  2 colour led to show charging or battery & with a mix of manufacturers in a building you never know which is which.